What to do when opponent cavalry charges ?

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

Hi all, I wanted to figure out the best way to react with your melee infantry against cavalry charges and made this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDK-AndI3KU&feature=youtu.be

Please share here your experiences.
I tested a lot more before making the video and results were the same

[spaceweezle]

Cool video.

Bracing would seem like the more intuitive option, at least in a more conventional situation where you have flank support from other infantry.

My guess for why bracing is slightly better in this particular scenario is that the infantry appear to lose a small amount of cohesion. Their line is not fully consistent when charging and there is also slight fragmentation in the ranks.

I'm also thinking lower charge bonuses on lesser infantry would likely yield diminished results for the infantry.

Possibly even more intriguing would be a comparison of different formations and the comparative strength value they have versus different tiers of Cavalry. I have noticed that wide and thin formations of mid-tier infantry do exceptionally well vs light cavalry. If I had to guess I would attribute that largely to frontline coverage as it relates to both enemy strength and light cavalry formation.

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

Thanks for the detailed observations.

Yes I have prepared one video that will upload later the week about the importance of rank and file while counter charging.
I have personal interest in the matter as someone that loves playing and plays almost daily but want to cross check my experiences with others.

What confused me is that in Rome 2 counter charging worked fine against cav or at least better, but was hugely surprised to see thaat in Med 2 just letting the units brace until sstatus was "ready" was way more effective

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by Chriscs7:

Thanks for the detailed observations.

Yes I have prepared one video that will upload later the week about the importance of rank and file while counter charging.
I have personal interest in the matter as someone that loves playing and plays almost daily but want to cross check my experiences with others.

What confused me is that in Rome 2 counter charging worked fine against cav or at least better, but was hugely surprised to see thaat in Med 2 just letting the units brace until sstatus was "ready" was way more effective

Sounds good. :)

Last time I played vanilla was around 2011, so my observations probably won't translate that well into this discussion. But I could still learn a thing or two as the underlying mechanics aren't that dissimilar, just a lot of stat variance to account for.

Probably my favorite thing about TW games, M2TW specifically, is the amount of thought put into kinetics and momentum. A charge can either be devastating, or it can be a likeness to throwing a wet towel at your enemy depending on movement, elevation, and relative speed.

One of the things I'm still unclear on is taking favorable Cav vs Cav engagements. I usually try to avoid that at all costs and instead hide my heavy cavalry behind the frontline and focus fire on bodyguard units, heavy Cav and Cav archers. Feels a bit cowardly, but I feel they can be put to better use without any hard counters on the field. The trade-off is that my infantry typically suffer a prolonged barrage from ranged units, that and having cavalry anywhere near your main force with incoming artillery fire is very unnerving. But the AI, at least in SS/SSHIP see your cavalry as juicy pickings.

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

I don't think that is cowardly looks like a great tactic to me and like you are a good player, cunning thing to do.
Everything that increases the odds of your army survival is good tactical manouver.
Yes the kinetics in this old game are very interesting charge can either be deadly KIILL HALF of entire unit if done properly speed x mass, or do nothing if soft charge from 1 meter away lol

[spaceweezle]

Hah! Gotta love those charges where your horse looks like it's trying to make love to the enemy. :S

Speaking of cavalry charges, I think I just ended my campaign by losing my prince to a horrific night battle against Seljuk on one of those awkward hill maps. I did not see the Heavy Ghulum approaching until it was too late. The darkness kind of crept up on me. He didn't even have a chance to make his princess pregnant. :(

I guess that was my queue to revert back to SS. The first and last general to fall under my command. You will be remembered, Dimas...

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

hahhahah sounds like an adventure. Write scenario about him and I can make him a tribute on my channel lol like I did for Julius Caesar.
There are some incredible moments that can happen in med 2 and no other game reprdouces

[spaceweezle]

I doubt I have the writing skill for that. Plus it might make me clinically depressed. I'll have to check out your Caesar tribute though. :)

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

Here you go buddy my Caesars tribute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3WmjFDPwRY

if you enjoy it consider like and comment so more people can see it, I spent 2 months doing that only for fun, I earn nothing from it just love creating and actually people also seeiing it as well.

Why would it make you clinically depressed ? For myself I love creating it makes me calm works other way around, I am also composing my first epic track now let's see how it goes. When II finish will upload it on my channel, I did thhe piano part now am adjusting the epic strings and chorus. Am very inspired by historical events

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by Chriscs7:

Here you go buddy my Caesars tribute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3WmjFDPwRY

if you enjoy it consider like and comment so more people can see it, I spent 2 months doing that only for fun, I earn nothing from it just love creating and actually people also seeiing it as well.

Why would it make you clinically depressed ? For myself I love creating it makes me calm works other way around, I am also composing my first epic track now let's see how it goes. When II finish will upload it on my channel, I did thhe piano part now am adjusting the epic strings and chorus. Am very inspired by historical events

I was actually going to amend my last post to mention that I am sorry that I could not like or comment on your video as I deleted my Youtube account. I watched it last night. Very well done.

I was depressed enough when I lost him. It would probably get a lot worse if I regressed on it any further. I'm still feeling very disappointed with myself for letting that happen. It was a very tragic loss and it haunts me.

[Matt]

I wouldn't do either of those ideally, if you order your men to run in the opposite direction to the cavalry they will kill a lot less men as the charge doesn't connect properly, you can then order your men to attack, it's a bit cheesy but it tends to work

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by Matthew2504:

I wouldn't do either of those ideally, if you order your men to run in the opposite direction to the cavalry they will kill a lot less men as the charge doesn't connect properly, you can then order your men to attack, it's a bit cheesy but it tends to work

I have noticed that to achieve this, I have to have my infantry overextended in the first place, otherwise, the infantry, provided I can time it right, will intersperse with and disrupt my archer line which ultimately defeats the purpose. I feel it's better to have a tight packed formation between infantry and Archers so as to maximize the lead-time on advancing cavalry.

It seems to work better for the AI as 1,) They have no concept of coherent formations, often having infantry behind ranged and 2.) It's more effective when the AI use it as they have pin-point timing and ultimate multitask ability.

I guess it would ultimately depend on army compositions on both ends and I can only really speak on that in the context of mods I play. So likely not completely relevant to this discussion.

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMRi-r8heo

[Matt]

Originally posted by Chriscs7:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMRi-r8heo

That video doesn't test running away and he only uses dismounted feudal knights. Spearmen should always brace against cavalry, and running away counters a cavalry charge quite well if done properly.

[[Ho7] Chriscs7]

Originally posted by Matthew2504:

Originally posted by Chriscs7:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMRi-r8heo

That video doesn't test running away and he only uses dismounted feudal knights. Spearmen should always brace against cavalry, and running away counters a cavalry charge quite well if done properly.

I will try running away.

It sounds counter intuitive to turn the back to a charging cavalry unit... at least iin Rome 2 you double the casualties that way but maybe in Med 2 works fine to minimise charge damage, will try it

[Matt]

Originally posted by Chriscs7:

Originally posted by Matthew2504:

That video doesn't test running away and he only uses dismounted feudal knights. Spearmen should always brace against cavalry, and running away counters a cavalry charge quite well if done properly.

I will try running away.

It sounds counter intuitive to turn the back to a charging cavalry unit... at least iin Rome 2 you double the casualties that way but maybe in Med 2 works fine to minimise charge damage, will try it

It usually works because the charge breaks, a few men at the back get killed but the charge loses momentum and the game is just a bit too old to be able to handle it. Rome 2 is a lot newer and some of the mechanics are less clunky, though medieval 2 still plays a hell of a lot better. You have to start running well in advance though, once the cavalry is close enough your men won't move quicker and you will lose even more than if you had done nothing.