Spearmen or heavy cavalry vs horses?

[Randomer]

Playing as Moors.

Dismounted Arab Cavalry:
https://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Dismounted_Arab_Cavalry_(M2TW_unit).html

Dismounted Christian Guard:
https://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Dismounted_Christian_Guard_(M2TW_unit).html

Lumtuna Spearmen:
https://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Lamtuna_Spearmen_(M2TW_unit).html

Which units would be most effective against cavalry? Of course, when defending I would prefer the Lumtuna due to their schiltrom ability blocking the gate. But when attacking, which would be better?

Spearmen get a bonus when fighting cavalry but how much of a bonus is it really?

[Gunther von Rittersburg]

Why dont you test it out and decide for yourself? Thats part of the fun with these old games.

[Randomer]

Originally posted by Jack Skellington:

Why dont you test it out and decide for yourself? Thats part of the fun with these old games.

Umm.

I'm lazy?

[Waxen]

Originally posted by R UNIT 777:

Umm.

I'm lazy?

Seriously, just do a custom battle with all three units it will take 5 minutes.

Anyway, it's +8 attack, so Christian Guard, while being overall stronger, still have the highest attack against cavalry.

[Randomer]

/s

I should have clarified.

[EoNightcore]

Dismounted Arab Cavalry has 48 troops with 7 attack, 3 charge, +8 attack vs cavalry, along with 13 total defense (4,3,6) and 5 morale.
Dismounted Christian Guard has 48 troops with 16 attack, 3 charge, and 22 total defense (7,9,6) with 11 morale.
Lamtuna Spearmen has 60 troops with 9 attack, 4 charge, +8 attack vs cavalry, along with 10 total defense (0,4,6) and 9 morale.

Let's do some hypothetical scenarios, because I'm too lazy to be testing for you.

These units vs Feudal Knights. 32 troops.
Their lances have 10 attack, 6 charge
Their swords have 11 attack, 4 charge
They have 16 defense (7,5,4) and 9 morale.

We'll use the theory on combat from Kalis here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?75734-Unit-stats-Explained
However, we'll include shields into defense, because that's kinda been fixed and explained several times over to death.

FK vs DAC 1, FK charge first.
FK formed charge, 11+6 lance charge vs DAC 13 def, +4 to chance to kill. Heavy damage to DAC.
Battle phase, DAC 7+8 spears vs FK 16 def, -1 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 13 def, -3 to chance to kill.
FK will heavily damage DAC, but if DAC can keep standing under pressure, will be able to defeat FK, but it's honestly in favor of FK as the charge dealt alot of damge to DAC, and thus to DAC's morale.

FK vs DAC 2, DAC charge first.
DAC charges with 7+3+8 spears, FK has 16 def, +2 to chance to kill. Decent damage to FK.
Battle phase, DAC 7+8 spears vs FK 16 def, -1 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 13 def, -3 to chance to kill.
DAC has upper hand and will wipe out FK, due to FK not being able to charge into DAC, but DAC will suffer alot of casulties.

FK vs DCG 1, FK charge first.
FK formed charge, 11+6 lance charge vs DAC 22 def, -5 to chance to kill. Light damage to DCG.
Battle phase, DCG 16 swords vs FK 16 def, 0 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 22 def, -12 to chance to kill.
FK will damage DCG, but will be wiped out. DCG will take some casulties.

FK vs DCG 2, DCG charge first.
DCG charges with 16+3 swords, FK has 16 def, +3 to chance to kill. Decent damage to FK.
Battle phase, DAC 16 swords vs FK 16 def, 0 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 13 def, -3 to chance to kill.
FK wiped out, DCG takes minimal casulties.

FK vs LS 1, FK charge first.
FK formed charge, 11+6 lance charge vs LS 10 def, +7 of chance to kill. Devasting damage to Arab Cav Spears.
Battle phase, LS 9+8 spears vs FK 16 def, +1 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 10 def, 0 to chance to kill.
LS takes devastating casulties, but will deal decent damage back to FK. Advantage heavily in favor of FK due to charge taking out alot of LS troops.

FK vs LS 2, LS charge first.
LS charges with 9+4+8 spears, FK has 16 def, +5 to chance to kill. Heavy damage to FK.
Battle phase, LS 9+8 spears vs FK 16 def, +1 to chance to kill. FK 10 sword vs DAC 10 def, 0 to chance to kill.
FK dies, but the survivors of the charge will be able to deal alot of damage to LS.

[Inardesco]

Spears, cuz due to the length of spears, more than 1 soldier can attack a single horse.

[Ashur_Arbaces]

Other cavalry is the best counter against cavalry. The moors also have special anti cavalry unit with tuareg camel spearmen.

[Inardesco]

Well, its always dependant on what you have in the army.

[mystikmind2005]

If your trying to defend a city, your better off making your stand at the alley way to the city centre. Not the walls. Have fast or expendable units to activate towers.

Once the gate is breached, and they have to march up the pathway towards the city centre, their units generally attack in a far more individualistic nature, giving you a much greater advantage to defeat them piecemeal, rather than the horde you would face all at once if defending the gate.

[LuNi]

Infantry is in general very, very bad choice against Cavalry. Spears get the job done in a prolonged melee but get butchered easily against cycle charging cav.

Avoid infantry and use your own cavalry or missile units. Infantry is basically fodder that allows missile units and cav to do their job.

[mystikmind2005]

Originally posted by LuNi:

Infantry is in general very, very bad choice against Cavalry. Spears get the job done in a prolonged melee but get butchered easily against cycle charging cav.

Avoid infantry and use your own cavalry or missile units. Infantry is basically fodder that allows missile units and cav to do their job.

Yea, thats why i love pilgrims, so cheap, yet serve the role of infantry perfectly fine, not to defeat enemy units directly, but to occupy enemy units until i can outflank them, and thats what its all about..... i do not like having pilgrims where the enemy has superior numbers though!!! lol

[Randomer]

It looks like I've been playing wrong as the Moors. I'm used to RTS' like BFME2 where spearmen absolutely shatter horses

[mystikmind2005]

Originally posted by R UNIT 777:

It looks like I've been playing wrong as the Moors. I'm used to RTS' like BFME2 where spearmen absolutely shatter horses

In this game pikeman can still shatter horses, spearmen generally hold their own.... but as the game advances, spearmen need to be upgraded/more advanced, green militia for example which could hold their own early game will shatter like peasants later on in the game, be warned!

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by mystikmind2005:

green militia for example which could hold their own early game will shatter like peasants later on in the game, be warned!

Hah...Try that with my Italian Militia backed up by Caraccio Standard!

[mystikmind2005]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Originally posted by mystikmind2005:

green militia for example which could hold their own early game will shatter like peasants later on in the game, be warned!

Hah...Try that with my Italian Militia backed up by Caraccio Standard!

Ok got my interest, how does a cavalry charge fair against them?