Are 2-H axemen like Galloglaich of much use at all??

[Kibey]

Apart from militia units and some low-level pike units, Galloglaich keep losing to every other unit (and in twcentre discussion threads, they are called Ireland's best infantry unit by some*).

*which I find funny, as I get better use of Ostmen and Ulster Swordsmen (not to mention the Muire).

I keep doing these 1-on-1 battles between units to find out their strengths and to find out which unit can take on which unit.

2-H swordsmen destroy pike units as well as 2-H axemen. Pike units/spearmen destroy cavalry, obviously (pike units in Kingdoms annihilate cavalry). Feudal/Chivalric Knights and Armoured Swordsmen destroy 2-H axemen and spearmen. Long range missile units with good/decent melee stats (like Dismounted Dvor, Byzantine Archers, Scots Guard or even the short range missile unit with high morale like the Koitsenko) destroy 2-H swordsmen/2-H axemen before they even get close.

In Crusades, Tabardariya and Varangian Guard keep losing to JHI (despite them both having far higher stats than JHI). Maybe that's because of JHI's longer reach halberds.

Is there any use of recruiting 2-H axemen??.

[Inardesco]

2handed axe units are NOT meant to be fighting one on one.

They're meant to strike infantry thats already engaged in the flank/rear.

The initial charge impact alongside the massive casualties breaks the enemy.

Thus, doing their job.

[Kibey]

So, they're basically support units. OK.

But for factions who don't have any decent heavy infantry to hold the line in the first place, 2-H axemen aren't of much use (anyway, thanks Inardesco).

[Ashur_Arbaces]

They're good shock troops for flanks in vanilla and they will mow down cavalry if said cavalry is already pinned down they will even fight in front line pretty well a few seconds after charging.
Prolonged melee becomes an issue though and they will melt when flanked because the long attack animations get interrupted more often than already is the case.
Only ones I would never use are norse axemen because they're very expensive and come very late but have the stats of a mid tier unit and are easily outclassed by that point.

2handed axes are significantly more well rounded in kingdoms and should take out most shield units 1on1. everything in vanilla still holds true but they're no longer as fragile and norse axemen are no longer crap. They still have serious issues with being flanked though. Never use them on walls either since the long attack animation will be their downfall against even significantly weaker units, this hold also true for vanilla.

JHI beats other superior looking 2 handed axes because of longer reach in melee and a faster attack aniamation. for the same reasons they're beasts on walls too.

[Kibey]

Originally posted by Ashur_Arbaces:

they will even fight in front line pretty well a few seconds after charging.
Prolonged melee becomes an issue though

Yeah, I found that out. Initially, after the 1st charge, 2-H axemen do a lot of damage but with time, their nos start dwindling.

Norse axemen aren't that bad (in Kingdoms at least, as you said; I rarely play vanilla nowadays) and their armour can be upgraded. OTOH, Galloglaich have an overall defense of 12 (compared to the Norse axemen's 14 which can be upgraded to 15) and Galloglaich's defense can't be upgraded.

Why Galloglaich were termed the best Irish infantry unit in a twcenter page, I'll never know (base Ulster Swordsmen aren't that good but after the 2 armour upgrades, they're transformed into a really good unit).

Anyways, thanks for your suggestions.

[Ashur_Arbaces]

Originally posted by Kibey:

Originally posted by Ashur_Arbaces:

they will even fight in front line pretty well a few seconds after charging.
Prolonged melee becomes an issue though

Yeah, I found that out. Initially, after the 1st charge, 2-H axemen do a lot of damage but with time, their nos start dwindling.

Norse axemen aren't that bad (in Kingdoms at least, as you said; I rarely play vanilla nowadays) and their armour can be upgraded. OTOH, Galloglaich have an overall defense of 12 (compared to the Norse axemen's 14 which can be upgraded to 15) and Galloglaich's defense can't be upgraded.

Why Galloglaich were termed the best Irish infantry unit in a twcenter page, I'll never know (base Ulster Swordsmen aren't that good but after the 2 armour upgrades, they're transformed into a really good unit).

Anyways, thanks for your suggestions.

Norse Axemen are only bad in vanilla (they cost almost twice as much as a berdiche axemen but have only 2 defense more) they got fixed in kingdoms.

And just for clarity my statement about fighting on walls and still being weak when flanked in kingdoms applies to all 2 handed axe units and not just norse axemen. I'm repeating this since it was stated in a rather confusing way in my original comment.