Call of Warhammer and Unit/Building Costs

[heavy weapons guy]

I don't know if you guys played the mod Call of Warhammer BOTET. But does any1 feel like the Units and Buildings cost way too much? Like 3000 gold for one building that only provides +100 income per turn and the unit upkeep and costs to recruit is just way too high (For example Chaos Warriors cost 2k to recruit and has 400 upkeep and their stats is just 8 Melee Atk and 20 Melee Def) . I find myself waiting turn after turn to just generate enough money to purchase that one building or unit. This went on until I got bored as heck at turn 30+ and just quit the game and never played it again. Religious conversion is also slow, I captured a settlement at turn 5 or sumthin and after 20 turns of having 4 religious figures surrounding the settlement the religion percentage went from 23% to just 30%, like wot???

[Inardesco]

I've played BOTET and didn't really have any issues with money. Do mind I was playing with Tomb Kings and just couldn't get past those dam Ogres and their kingdom.

As for +100 income, if that is flat income, it's a lot and it'll have paid you back in 30 turns and that income will stay regardless of population and trade.

Next to that, 8 melee attack is low but 20 melee defence is a lot, considering there is also armour and shield on top of that.

If your economy is as poor as you say, you might be needing to rethink the way you approach the game. It's certainly not meant as a starters campaign.

[heavy weapons guy]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

I've played BOTET and didn't really have any issues with money. Do mind I was playing with Tomb Kings and just couldn't get past those dam Ogres and their kingdom.

As for +100 income, if that is flat income, it's a lot and it'll have paid you back in 30 turns and that income will stay regardless of population and trade.

Next to that, 8 melee attack is low but 20 melee defence is a lot, considering there is also armour and shield on top of that.

If your economy is as poor as you say, you might be needing to rethink the way you approach the game. It's certainly not meant as a starters campaign.

I don't know about Tomb Kings, but Empire Swordsman cost 650 gold to recruit and has an upkeep of 150 and they have 8 Melee Atk and 15 Melee Defense. That price difference is huge compared to the Chaos Warriors, and they only lose 5 points in Melee Defense against the Chaos Warriors.

About the 30 turns to generate back that 3000 i spent, that's the thing I've been complaining about you just sit around waiting to get enough money to be able to execute your next move (like buying a new building or recruiting units), also the campaign victory goals involve you conquering 50 to 80 regions and a long list of factions you need to eliminate, so you don't have the luxury of sitting around just waiting for that money.

I know you got 400 turns to complete em but the religious conversion and money generating is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ slow you just sit around a bunch of turns trying to get those money for buildings and units and to convert the populace so that you won't have to garrison your armies in the settlements to maintain public order.

[Inardesco]

You should have invasions as chaos, which is crusades, which means ftee upkeep for any army that joins it.

So call one of those, get all your armies on it, make money. Start sacking the enemy. You really need to do that to make the money.

BOTET is meant as a slow campaign. Unlike vanilla where you can get 45 settlements in 45 turns or less.

[Heavy]

Not sure about that its supposed to be a slow campaign. I managed to easily take roughly 20 or so cities by turn 30 as Reikland with a net income of 10k each turn with a few stack-armies holding the pass southwards near Nuln against Skaven and East near the Moot against VC.

[Inardesco]

Some areas are closer together. When I played with Tomb Kings it took me 50 turns to secure Araby because 45 of those turns were spend walking from one settlement to the next, notwithstanding going north into the badlands, also multiple turns to just walk from a to b.

Now, 50 turns is an exaggeration but still, the Empire provinces are the most dense of the entire map.

[heavy weapons guy]

Chaos crusades don't happen very often, your gonna have to wait for tens of turns to call for another. I played as Chaos and I find myself just fighting with just one full stack army even though I have conquered the entire Norsca because of how expensive unit upkeeps are.

Even if you are successful in the crusade. It is very unlikely you get to keep the city because the city you captured usually has low percentage of your religion. For example, I crusaded and captured Middenheim but had to sack and destroy every buildings in the city for money. Then abandoned it to revolt because keeping my army at Middenheim just to maintain public order and waiting for the populace to convert is not a viable option since I need that army to continue my campaign. And how does religious conversion works in this game??? Tens of turns passed and only a few percentage converted.

Not to mention the AI gets free garrison units when sieged, the easiest and most broken faction by far imo is the Vampire Counts, because their skeleton and zombie units are insanely cheap in upkeep. Skeleton units cost only 15 upkeep and zombies only 5 upkeep, even though they have trash stats they have locked morale meaning they do not route at all unless ordered to, meaning you have to kill EVERY SINGLE ONE of them to win the battle. Once i had 20 units of zombies defeated 20 units of Empire mixed Melee/Cavalry/Ranged not because they couldn't defeat my army, its because I grind out their Morale and every1 just routed. So I won the battle with me suffering more casualties than the enemy.

[Inardesco]

Uhm....calling skeletons overpowered?

I struggled massively with Tomb Kings against Ogre Kingdoms to the point I had to go and find a rebalance for them on TWCenter. Still overpowered but easier to deal with.

They take cannonballs to the face and just walk on like nothing happened. Their stats are insane for the amount of upkeep they have. It was terrible fighting against them and they were everywhere.

[heavy weapons guy]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Uhm....calling skeletons overpowered?

I struggled massively with Tomb Kings against Ogre Kingdoms to the point I had to go and find a rebalance for them on TWCenter. Still overpowered but easier to deal with.

They take cannonballs to the face and just walk on like nothing happened. Their stats are insane for the amount of upkeep they have. It was terrible fighting against them and they were everywhere.

Tomb Kings skeletons has 150 upkeep, meaning one unit of Tomb Kings skeletons is equal to ten units of Vampire Counts skeleton units. And I didn't call skeletons OP, I called the Vampire Counts a broken and OP faction. Also if you fight the battles manually with skeletons the AI will have no choice but to kill every single one of your units manually to win, auto resolving with skeletons will just make you lose battles that you could've won if you manually fought them.