Can you steal siege equipment?

[ubermensch]

So sometimes during sieges the opponent leaves stuff like catapults behind. Are you able to crew it and essentially steal it from them before the battle ends?

[HazardHawk]

No

[Cyrus The Great]

Originally posted by ubermensch:

So sometimes during sieges the opponent leaves stuff like catapults behind. Are you able to crew it and essentially steal it from them before the battle ends?

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

No

Obviously you can, as long as you have indentical crew - same rules apply for abandoned siege towers, rams etc - all you need to do is hold Alt and then just right click on piece you want to crew.

[Mile pro Libertate]

You can destroy enemy siege engine too. For example you can sally out, order your men to attack the catapults and destroy them, then withdraw back into the castle.

[EoNightcore]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

You can destroy enemy siege engine too. For example you can sally out, order your men to attack the catapults and destroy them, then withdraw back into the castle.

^ Assuming the enemy doesn't attack the men in the process.

Also, there's a slight possible chance, when the siege engine breaks apart, that it collapses on the men attacking it.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Originally posted by EoNightcore:

Also, there's a slight possible chance, when the siege engine breaks apart, that it collapses on the men attacking it.

In my experience this is a 100% chance and causes the unit to rout from casualties. -.-

[HazardHawk]

Originally posted by n+ultra|| Cyrus The Great:

Originally posted by ubermensch:

So sometimes during sieges the opponent leaves stuff like catapults behind. Are you able to crew it and essentially steal it from them before the battle ends?

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

No

Obviously you can, as long as you have indentical crew - same rules apply for abandoned siege towers, rams etc - all you need to do is hold Alt and then just right click on piece you want to crew.

I suppose technically you can, but what good is it to uncrew a catapult, and grab an enemies catapult once you route the crew? That is not actually stealing, but replacing.

[EoNightcore]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

Originally posted by n+ultra|| Cyrus The Great:

Obviously you can, as long as you have indentical crew - same rules apply for abandoned siege towers, rams etc - all you need to do is hold Alt and then just right click on piece you want to crew.

I suppose technically you can, but what good is it to uncrew a catapult, and grab an enemies catapult once you route the crew? That is not actually stealing, but replacing.

I wonder.

If a siege crew transfers from their original siege weapon to an enemy siege weapon, will they have the ammunition count of the enemy siege weapon, or will they keep the same ammunition count from the original siege weapon?

[HazardHawk]

That is actually a good question. I have no idea. If you try it, let us know.

[EoNightcore]

Hypothesis:
A siege crew will be able to exchange ammunition if it commandeers an enemy siege engine.


1st Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of one ballista and several holibars (to secure the opposing force's ballista)
Force 2 composed of 2 French Armies, one composed of peasants to waste ammunition on, and the other composed of one ballista.

Result:
Despite placing the enemy force on the defensive side, the French peasants attacked the English holibars in the middle of routing the French ballista crew.
Had to cancel battle due to inteference. Inconclusive test.


2nd Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of one ballista and several holibars.
Force 2 composed of French Army of one ballista.
Force 3 composed of HRE Army with one ballista.
Force 4 composed of Spanish Army with one ballista.

Result:
The French ballista crew was quickly routed by holibars. Meanwhile, the English ballista quickly shot and destroyed the HRE ballista engines, forcing the HRE crew to drop their engines. Soonafter, the English ballista crew dropped their ballista engines and ran towards the abandoned French ballista engines. Interestingly, the HRE crew, which had also been heading towards the French ballista, instead switched directions towards the now-abandoned English Ballista engines.
Upon the English crew reaching the French ballista engines and commandeering it, it appeared as though their ammunition had been changed back to full (as the French crew hadn't gotten a shot off before the holibars attacked them)
Cancled battle due to the fact that the rest of the fight would have been three ballista crews firing at one another until all the ballistas either broke, or ran out of ammunition.


3rd Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of 5 trebuchets, 2 holibars, and 1 merchant cavalry militia to serve as the commander.
Force 2 composed of 7 different armies composed of 1 trebuchet each (France, HRE, Spain, etc...).

Result:
English Commander withdrew to the red line at the back of the map, as Force 2's trebuchet slowly made their way there to bomb the English Commander, ignoring the bombardment of the English Trebuchets and the attack of the English holibars on one of their Trebuchet crews.
Upon one of the English trebuchet using up 10-20% of the ammunition, they dropped their engine and made their way to the abandoned Force 1 trebuchet engine.
Upon commandeering the Force 2 trebuchet engine, it was clear that the commandeering English Trebuchet had full ammunition (as the Force 2 trebuchets were gunning for the general that was quite far away).
Canceled battle upon seeing the English Trebuchet crew get full ammunition upon commandeering the Force 2 Trebuchet.


Conclusion:
If a siege engine crew drops their siege engine and commandeers a different siege engine, ammuntion will not transfer. Instead, the siege engine crew will gain the ammunition of the new siege engine.

[EoNightcore]

Now, we have to test this conclusion among friendly siege engine units.

If possible, I might test it using two siege engine units and a settlement. One siege engine fires until half their ammunition is used, than the two units will exchange siege engines.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by EoNightcore:

Hypothesis:
A siege crew will be able to exchange ammunition if it commandeers an enemy siege engine.


1st Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of one ballista and several holibars (to secure the opposing force's ballista)
Force 2 composed of 2 French Armies, one composed of peasants to waste ammunition on, and the other composed of one ballista.

Result:
Despite placing the enemy force on the defensive side, the French peasants attacked the English holibars in the middle of routing the French ballista crew.
Had to cancel battle due to inteference. Inconclusive test.


2nd Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of one ballista and several holibars.
Force 2 composed of French Army of one ballista.
Force 3 composed of HRE Army with one ballista.
Force 4 composed of Spanish Army with one ballista.

Result:
The French ballista crew was quickly routed by holibars. Meanwhile, the English ballista quickly shot and destroyed the HRE ballista engines, forcing the HRE crew to drop their engines. Soonafter, the English ballista crew dropped their ballista engines and ran towards the abandoned French ballista engines. Interestingly, the HRE crew, which had also been heading towards the French ballista, instead switched directions towards the now-abandoned English Ballista engines.
Upon the English crew reaching the French ballista engines and commandeering it, it appeared as though their ammunition had been changed back to full (as the French crew hadn't gotten a shot off before the holibars attacked them)
Cancled battle due to the fact that the rest of the fight would have been three ballista crews firing at one another until all the ballistas either broke, or ran out of ammunition.


3rd Test:
Force 1 composed of English Army of 5 trebuchets, 2 holibars, and 1 merchant cavalry militia to serve as the commander.
Force 2 composed of 7 different armies composed of 1 trebuchet each (France, HRE, Spain, etc...).

Result:
English Commander withdrew to the red line at the back of the map, as Force 2's trebuchet slowly made their way there to bomb the English Commander, ignoring the bombardment of the English Trebuchets and the attack of the English holibars on one of their Trebuchet crews.
Upon one of the English trebuchet using up 10-20% of the ammunition, they dropped their engine and made their way to the abandoned Force 1 trebuchet engine.
Upon commandeering the Force 2 trebuchet engine, it was clear that the commandeering English Trebuchet had full ammunition (as the Force 2 trebuchets were gunning for the general that was quite far away).
Canceled battle upon seeing the English Trebuchet crew get full ammunition upon commandeering the Force 2 Trebuchet.


Conclusion:
If a siege engine crew drops their siege engine and commandeers a different siege engine, ammuntion will not transfer. Instead, the siege engine crew will gain the ammunition of the new siege engine.

Thanks for going through all that...sounds like a headache. Interesting because after all these years, I had never thought of this.

[HazardHawk]

And you are having the time of your life testing and playing to learn something no one else knows that I know of! Hahahahaha! Now the question is, are you doing custom battles or campaign battles? Hee hee! May as well add some layers to your fun!

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Hmm, I know more siege XP means more accuracy but could it also mean more ammo?

[EoNightcore]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Hmm, I know more siege XP means more accuracy but could it also mean more ammo?

Originally posted by EoNightcore:

Now, we have to test this conclusion among friendly siege engine units.

If possible, I might test it using two siege engine units and a settlement. One siege engine fires until half their ammunition is used, than the two units will exchange siege engines.

Hypothesis-1:
A unit that has more experience points has more ammunition.
Hypothesis-2:
Two friendly units with the same siege engine, upon exchanging siege engines, will also exchange ammunition.

Test:
Force 1 composed of 1 merchant cavalry militia, and 3 culverins (1 of which is at 3 gold chevrons).
Force 2 composed of 1 unit of peasants holed up inside a huge city.

Result:
2 of the 3 culverins fired upon the city walls, creating two breach points (both were firing on the same breach point). The gold chevron culverin crew and the no chevron culverin crew had the same rate of fire, and upon stopping after creating the second breach point, the same amount of ammunition.
Meanwhile, all three culverin crews dropped their culverins, before the gold chevron crew were ordered to pick up the spare guns that had not been used in the bombardment of the walls. The other two were ordered to pick up the used guns.
The gold chevron crew had full ammunition, while the other two crew had ammunition that was already slightly used up.
Test was canceled shortly after.

Conclusion-1:
Units with more experience points do not have more ammunition.
Conclusion-2:
Friendly siege crews will exchange ammunition upon exchanging their siege engines.

[EoNightcore]

I'll probably do one more test, to see whenever it's possible for a Siege Crew to commandeer a siege weapon that's from a similar, but different unit.

So something like an South European Catapult crew trying to using a Middle Eastern Catapult (cause those are actually different units).