When leveling up, what's the benefit of raising dex over str for rogues?

[Arrrtyom]

Daggers benefit from both dex/str while other melee weapons benefit from str. So isn't it just better to raise str instead of dex when levelling up?

Dex does give evasion and accuracy, but the formula appears to be tied to your level or something (so at level 15 you'd need 15 dex to gain 1 acc and evasion maybe), which doesn't make it very worth it anyway. Might as well just raise str all the way to give yourself the freedom of using all weapons? I'm rather salty now because of some relic mace that gives 10 accuracy, which I might want to use over a dagger (but can't because I raised dex).

And on another note, it's kinda funny that the recently added respec option only resets skills and not attributes

[Syger]

If you can get all the accuracy needed from enchants instead of putting points into dex the formula might be a bit broken. Imo even tanks should need to put points into dexterity. Can someone else shed some light on this? I'm aware people say high accuracy is critical at higher difficulty but can you get away with not putting points into dex?

[Arrrtyom]

Originally posted by Syger:

If you can get all the accuracy needed from enchants instead of putting points into dex the formula might be a bit broken. Imo even tanks should need to put points into dexterity. Can someone else shed some light on this? I'm aware people say high accuracy is critical at higher difficulty but can you get away with not putting points into dex?

What enchants give you accuracy?

It's not enchants that I found, just some one-handed mace called "Rod of Punishment" or something. Deals decent damage with +10 accuracy, some crit chance and crit damage.

[BiggerBaguette]

I use Socketed Scout's Rings (+10 Accuracy) on all my characters, and the Medallion of the Legend Hunter as well as Stonethrone's Reach as relics. That gives all my characters 120 base accuracy- you could get 125 with Lord of Swords as a relic as well, but 120 base has worked fine for me. My Wizard also has +10 more from Vestments of the Cruel Vizier, and my Rogue has +10 from dexterity, but I haven't needed any more than that on 3x300% for anything to have a decent enough hit chance.

[Immo]

As for accuracy, a lot of people just use Retribution tree and any AoE to apply holly debuff --> in result accuracy is 100% from what I heard (I weren't testing if Hail of Arrow's fixed 75% is overwritten by 100%)
Instead of pushing own accuracy, you can also decrease opponent's Evasion (there are a lot of skills to do it).
Also a lot of artifacts boost Accuracy a lot (+30/ +50 etc), there are several skills to raise it severly.
Third option, if opponent has high evasion, use only skills that "never miss"

About how Dex influences Evasion, Garin described it somewhere. Oh, found the thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/469720/discussions/0/2788173147745227064/

[Immo]

As for whether to use Dex or Str
I'd say that it depends if you plan to use your character only for daggers OR
perhaps you don't abandon an option to use One hand + Shield or 2H weapon (Blademaster class in particular).

Yet another aspect: it depends if you go full Dex or full Str equipment to use proper Shard: for str or dex, because there is no shard dex+str. So if you used equipmnet full for str, then you would use shards for str and then it would be way way more efficient to spend your stat points into str.

[Arrrtyom]

Originally posted by Immo:

As for accuracy, a lot of people just use Retribution tree and any AoE to apply holly debuff --> in result accuracy is 100% from what I heard (I weren't testing if Hail of Arrow's fixed 75% is overwritten by 100%)
Instead of pushing own accuracy, you can also decrease opponent's Evasion (there are a lot of skills to do it).
Also a lot of artifacts boost Accuracy a lot (+30/ +50 etc), there are several skills to raise it severly.
Third option, if opponent has high evasion, use only skills that "never miss"

About how Dex influences Evasion, Garin described it somewhere. Oh, found the thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/469720/discussions/0/2788173147745227064/

Nemesis has 100% accuracy with rain of arrows when enemies have a holy debuff, I've been using that a lot. Especially sick when you start getting crit damage relics.

Apart from the divine/retribution tree, I don't remember other skills that debuff enemies' evasion though?

So dex does scale with level. Guess I would have preferred str instead, but anyway I guess if I were to be going lategame in the future then the 15 stat points I allocated wouldn't make that much of a difference compared to stats from equipment

Also, are 5 bags + vault all you get for inventory space? For a game with so many enhancement items, it doesn't really support my hoarding tendencies... I've no space left now bahaha

[Immo]

"Also, are 5 bags + vault all you get for inventory space?"
Yeah that's a pain.. that's why I have 2 different companies with endgame gear xd so I use 10 bags and 2 Vaults xd

"Apart from the divine/retribution tree, I don't remember other skills that debuff enemies' evasion though?"

I haven't played since a while, but from what I remember+read game files...
own accuracy buff: Exorcise, Covering Fire
enemy evasion debuff: Tackle, Divine Guidance, Breach Defence (effect), Ablaze (effect), Exotic Poison effect), hmm monster effects:
Stinking Concotion, Divestive Acid, Darkness...
grants 100% accuracy: battle stance Sweeping Strikes
100% accuracy skills... ... a lot. .. ..
Fireball, Electrocute, Prayer of Retribution, Holly Light, Smite, That One's Mine, ... 26 results in total xd

[Syger]

Sounds to me like Dex really is a bit underpowered after all this. Maybe if it helped scale quickness a little bit too..

[casinoman2000]

In my experience, DEX/STR only increases weapon damage.

[Torzelbaum]

Originally posted by Syger:

Sounds to me like Dex really is a bit underpowered after all this. Maybe if it helped scale quickness a little bit too..

Quickness is already pretty powerful and there are a good number of ways to increase it. If boosting Dex is underpowered then maybe it could provide another benefit like Starting Action and/or boosting Quickness when retreating.

[Arrrtyom]

Furthermore, just realized that the only shard for dex seems to be Thysion (dex and int), which is pretty crap compared to strength, which has shards for str + int and str + end.

If I'm playing a physical dps rogue/archer, int is going to be nothing but useless. At least if it were dex + end I'd be able to increase my health a bit. Dex seems pretty bad to spec into for a rogue compared to str.

[Syger]

Originally posted by Torzelbaum:

Originally posted by Syger:

Sounds to me like Dex really is a bit underpowered after all this. Maybe if it helped scale quickness a little bit too..

Quickness is already pretty powerful and there are a good number of ways to increase it. If boosting Dex is underpowered then maybe it could provide another benefit like Starting Action and/or boosting Quickness when retreating.

Yeah I'm aware how strong quickness is which is exactly why i suggested this. If quickness levels were effectively raised across the board with points invested in dex maybe it wouldn't be such a mandatory pick for items that have +quickness. Keep in mind however this would only work if monsters also had a dexterity attribute factorred into their own quickness. If monsters do have attributes (str/dex/int/con) similar to the players it is not shown on inspection that I am aware of.

[Evildrake]

Raising Dex could make sense if you would want to use Fan of Knives and/or Shuriken as additional damage source. Also it's not untypical to have shards which could raise Dex by 200%+ so your 15 hard points spend could result in +45 in fact.

Originally posted by Arrrtyom:

Furthermore, just realized that the only shard for dex seems to be Thysion (dex and int), which is pretty crap compared to strength, which has shards for str + int and str + end.

If I'm playing a physical dps rogue/archer, int is going to be nothing but useless. At least if it were dex + end I'd be able to increase my health a bit. Dex seems pretty bad to spec into for a rogue compared to str.

While I agree that only having Dex + Int shards is kinda stupid, I really hoped for Dex + End for some reason, I don't think that having Int is a bad stat to have on a Rogue/Archer. Int is the main source for your poison dot scaling. Unless you decide to play without poison, the extra int enables some ninja assassin typed hybrids, ones which also dish out some elemental damage aside of your weapon damage to better handle immunes/resistant enemies.

If it ever be possible to modify affixes and shards I'd start with those affixes which can't compete against 2 shards socketed in, like making the +1% crit chance be +2% crit chance, not really better than shards, but still at a near same level as 2 shards of dilaera, just without the damage bonus). Also I'd like to do sth about those still static set bonuses like +bonus when healer or +healing skill bonus and such.

Originally posted by Syger:

Originally posted by Torzelbaum:

Quickness is already pretty powerful and there are a good number of ways to increase it. If boosting Dex is underpowered then maybe it could provide another benefit like Starting Action and/or boosting Quickness when retreating.

Yeah I'm aware how strong quickness is which is exactly why i suggested this. If quickness levels were effectively raised across the board with points invested in dex maybe it wouldn't be such a mandatory pick for items that have +quickness. Keep in mind however this would only work if monsters also had a dexterity attribute factorred into their own quickness. If monsters do have attributes (str/dex/int/con) similar to the players it is not shown on inspection that I am aware of.

I personally would prefer to add some armor piercing to the dex stat. More skilled characters might be able to more accurately hit vital spots and thus, causing more severe damage. I personally think that quickness should be mainly determined by the used weapon. There are already large variations between +5 quickness and -10 quickness(The Bull's Hammer as exception) but some quickness tonics are doing a good part at making it less important how much quickness you lose/gain by weapon/equipment.