Ironman mode and difficulty

[Evildrake]

I'd really love to do this challenge, but right now I feel like this mode is impossible to play at higher difficulties. I mean I start a game with enemies with 300% damage/health and 300% more quickness, making enemies ultimately 900% more deadly but I should kill them by just using default attacks? It's not possible until people get some sort of skills and starting equipment.

My suggestion here is: How about dynamic difficulty increase for this game mode? The difficulty starts low as characters are low in levels and the enemies grow stronger as the player characters gain levels and unlock skills. Not sure where the right point of the final power should be, but I'd guess it would be once a player is theoretically able to fill up the skill bar with active abilities to give him the options to deal with beefed up opponents. Maybe the point when opponents are fought at max diffculty is once the average party level is at about 10-12? E.g. for 10, if playing the hardest mode, maybe adding per average level +30% of the enemies damage/health and +30% quickness until it reaches the difficulty you did set for yourself? Eventually the difficulty shouldn't grow too much at the first 3 level ups since the options offered are not enough to justify a linear increase of enemy power? Any thoughts?

I feel this game setting is in a flawed state when you seek out the challenge and pretty much forces you on a difficulty which lateron might be too easy. Numbers suggested above are just examples, I think balancing it dynamically can be quite a challenge to make it feel appropiately fair at low levels and making it challenging at higher levels.

[timothybax9]

I already brought this up and Garin confirmed that custom mode would be an impossibility in Ironman. I certainly couldn't survive max custom if it even let you set it from start. I can do highest regulag difficulty no problem but eh. I don't really want to start from scratch just for that.

I can except that. I see no reason to swap though since the option to swap to max custom is not worth giving up.

You're basically asking him to overhaul his whole game when he is finished with it and has already stated multiple times that he will only be making minor changes (like adventure mode and bug fixes).

Yes, the game is hard at low levels and becomes super easy when you get super geared. It's not a perfect design, but it's how these monster den games tend to work and people still enjoy them. I do like some kinda challenge no matter how geared my party gets. An endless waves battle with fast scaling enemies would be all I need. Key word on fast.

Garin has stated that he thought players enjoyed becoming super overpowered, but I'm confident it's the exact opposite. Being OP is the most boring thing that can happen. You lose all the challenge and thus all the motivation. Players need goals they can set without making ones up for themselves.

[casinoman2000]

I imediately started the ironman on extreme when the update dropped. My party consists lv7 warrior, 2 clerics and mage. Although I have died A LOT, it is not impossible-just at a slower pace. Resurrect for both clerics, Sprite, War golem really helps yor survivability. I just fought the small fights and roamed the map for "spoils of battle" and "Abandoned forts" to see what I can find. Eventually, larger fights will become doable.

I agree Ironman is harder be a good deal, but that's the point! To test the players' skill and tactics as well patience- the fights are longer. However, I think the Ironman rule should allow difficulty increases should a player wish.

[Evildrake]

I think that enemies attack 3-times more often and 3-times harder while you are only allowed to attack them with your weapon has not much to do with challenging. My only concern is that you feel bullied by the game if the point of the early challenge is to know how to default attack enemies while they cheese you down per move with just 1-2 hits.It's just the early state which feels not realistic. I'm aware that you might do somewhat well once you developed your characters to some part, but not from scratch without any skills nor proper starting equipment.

I don't want request major changes. I just wanted to point out that the early levels of game might need some help. It feels less like a challenge but more like a bully(enemy attacks 3-times and you are allowed to swing your weapon once against them). With 2-3 starting skills you might work around this better.

[garin]

I don't recommend playing with all custom difficulty sliders maxed (in any mode.) It's not remotely balanced. I make no guarantees about the viability of playing that way.

The intent of giving you access to those sliders (with such extreme values) is to let the player find settings that suit them - maybe enemies are more powerful but slower, or deal less damage but have higher HP to create longer fights. If you set all of the sliders to maximum the game is inevitably going to get pretty stupid.

(It's also worth noting that the Ironman achievement can't be earned on a custom difficulty)

[Immo]

Tbh, eg. for me, Ironman mode would be much more attractive if it had any feature not accessible on normal mode... For example a constant +30% bonus to expirience, or +50% to all monsters strength button during initial difficulty setting, or double strength to Dreadfather buff, or a new item, or a new Manual :D .
{ Bonus xp would greately increase maximum level available within reasonable amout of time, really. At the point it takes 40k xp for highest lvl party member to level up, 30% would be really huge amout of grind. Eg. 1% bonus per 1% additional difficulty. Eg. 300%*100%*100% would be 10% more XP from Ironman Mode on 300%, 100%, 100%. 30% on triple0.3k%
So struggling to beat them at the beginning would pay off in shortening the time of grind at endgame }

[Evildrake]

300% on everything was the extreme example, but 300/300/200%(I personally think max speed slider is the most impactful and most difficult modifier) is also quite heavy or any combination of this. I just don't want to set the difficulty too low to have it too easy later on. I could be an idea to at least increase the diffculty by time. My only concern is the "impossibility" at fighting enemies with just default attacks. I don't believe this is was ironman is balanced for. Being able to increase it but not lower it could be already a start and once reaching like lv 5 with the company or average of lv 10 with party level you have to make a clear decision which difficulty you want to continue on. This again is just one example. I really want to try out this mode, but I don't really want to start too easy just do it trough the early game but feeling unchallenged at lategame.

Looking forward for other great updates though. Sth. like the skill resets was pretty much asked for and is a real good thing.

[garin]

I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not philosophically opposed to letting you increase the difficulty in Ironman, but the implementation is more complicated than you might expect and I have to balance up whether it’s worth it.

1.18 does add some new tricks for navigating the early game, though. Gather some low-risk gold and take advantage of the factions’ special training to get a head start.