Creating speed or creation count?

[CarnageByM]

Should I get an extra creation count for 50GP or save up 100GP for the +350% speed multiplier? Seems the 350% one is where you get the most for your GP's?

[trgKai]

35% and 350% give the same speed per GP, no reason to bank up for it. Create speed is only worth increasing until you hit the point that you create clones every tick (the create bar is just black and the number scrolls).

Once you hit that point, the only way to go faster on clones is create count.

[CarnageByM]

Originally posted by Kaiousama:

35% and 350% give the same speed per GP, no reason to bank up for it. Create speed is only worth increasing until you hit the point that you create clones every tick (the create bar is just black and the number scrolls).

Once you hit that point, the only way to go faster on clones is create count.

And at what % would that be?

[trgKai]

245% increased create speed, assuming you're able to hit ~60 duodecillion creating stat. That's the point where you no longer gain any additional speed from the Creating stat.

[CarnageByM]

Originally posted by Kaiousama:

245% increased create speed, assuming you're able to hit ~60 duodecillion creating stat. That's the point where you no longer gain any additional speed from the Creating stat.

I'm not able to hit that. Not even remotely close.

[muljostpho]

Create count? *looks at upgrades* The one that costs 50 GP which is listed just below the upgrade for doubled statistic multiplier?

Hmmm, in the context of what was just said about it in this topic, I think I read that one completely wrong when I first read it. It had sounded to me like it was saying that it would automatically add one of every monument / upgrade / etc., as far as whatever you've got materials on hand to afford at the time when you pay that 50 GP into it. (Which just sounded stupid and not worth the cost, so I guess I dimissed it as something frivolous.) But it's actually... double or nothing on creating clones and materials? Clone, light, and stone don't have prerequisites anyway, of course. Double of zero cost is still zero cost. But for soil, air, water, etc. this upgrade would change it so that they always use double to make double, yes? Interesting... and kind of weird.

Anyway, what I was actually wondering about as I look over these boards right now was that I know I saw some post somewhere that had some guidelines suggesting GP spending on creation speed, build speed, and clone cap upgrades but I can't seem to find it again. I know it said the same thing that was just said about there being a cap on creation speed (3450%, right?) which can be reached with only 245% purchased boost (since it scales with the creation stat as well (I don't know the reasoning why 60 duodeciliion got selected as a magic number though)). Currently I'm at 245% creation speed, 350% build speed, and 120k clone cap and personally I want to keep focusing on increasing clones for a while, but I'm pretty sure that the post I read had some specific intructions about alternating between build speed and clones at a specific rate and I forget what that suggestion had said and didn't really care about their reasoning that much. But I was still curious to look again at what that advice had said.

[Bravo]

Originally posted by muljostpho:

Create count? *looks at upgrades* The one that costs 50 GP which is listed just below the upgrade for doubled statistic multiplier?

Hmmm, in the context of what was just said about it in this topic, I think I read that one completely wrong when I first read it. It had sounded to me like it was saying that it would automatically add one of every monument / upgrade / etc., as far as whatever you've got materials on hand to afford at the time when you pay that 50 GP into it. (Which just sounded stupid and not worth the cost, so I guess I dimissed it as something frivolous.) But it's actually... double or nothing on creating clones and materials? Clone, light, and stone don't have prerequisites anyway, of course. Double of zero cost is still zero cost. But for soil, air, water, etc. this upgrade would change it so that they always use double to make double, yes? Interesting... and kind of weird.

Anyway, what I was actually wondering about as I look over these boards right now was that I know I saw some post somewhere that had some guidelines suggesting GP spending on creation speed, build speed, and clone cap upgrades but I can't seem to find it again. I know it said the same thing that was just said about there being a cap on creation speed (3450%, right?) which can be reached with only 245% purchased boost (since it scales with the creation stat as well (I don't know the reasoning why 60 duodeciliion got selected as a magic number though)). Currently I'm at 245% creation speed, 350% build speed, and 120k clone cap and personally I want to keep focusing on increasing clones for a while, but I'm pretty sure that the post I read had some specific intructions about alternating between build speed and clones at a specific rate and I forget what that suggestion had said and didn't really care about their reasoning that much. But I was still curious to look again at what that advice had said.

Doubling the amount you create increases the capacity to build stuff beyond the "cap" when you produce each creation instantly per tick (particularly useful at the start for clones) it also provides a small discount on amount of creations required to build a higher creation when you're building 2+ of them at the same time.

On the topic of creation speed - you need thousands (if not tens or hundreds of thousands) of creation speed to actually cap out the benefit - but beyond getting clones to produce instantly there's not all that much reason early game to upgrade creation speed - as divinity is likely to be the bigger bottleneck. Later however when you're producing huge amounts of divinity a second higher creation speeds allows you to build much "bigger" creations faster - increasing the gain of your creation stat. Probably not really worth the GP though as build speed is generally more useful from what I've seen.

[trgKai]

I will amend my response about "not worth it" past 245%. Later on, you might as well boost CS slightly, but I'd probably keep it around 1/8 to 1/10th your build speed boost for the majority of your time.

However, it does come in handy for things like the Double Rebirth Challenge, where your multipliers are reset to 1. At that point, higher CS will be useful since you're no longer going to have the big creating speed boost from a Creating stat until halfway through the run.

For regular play though, Build Speed, Clone Cap, and Create Count are going to be the majority of your GP spending.

[roboticaust]

Originally posted by CptEgo:

Originally posted by Kaiousama:

245% increased create speed, assuming you're able to hit ~60 duodecillion creating stat. That's the point where you no longer gain any additional speed from the Creating stat.

I'm not able to hit that. Not even remotely close.

It doesn't take long to reach that point at all. It's why all the guides including the one packaged in the game suggests doing so. Basic gist of early game is increasing your creation to that point as well as getting your clone amount up to the base cap (999999). After that point you'll be strong enough to make a handful of god power and progress easily per run. There's a few playstyles that open up as to how to effectively spend gp after reaching this point, so I won't tell you how to play, but for sure you want to focus that creation speed and clones available as soon as humanly possible or the game feels like a brick wall until you do.

[roboticaust]

Originally posted by muljostpho:

-snip-

It was a mathing of the effectiveness of clones dedicated to building and the building speed. The number was 775 then afterwards 10k clones for building purposes per 87.5 building speed. In other words, every 5 purchases of the 10gp build speed is another 10k clones after reaching that 775%. This however doesn't mean you can't buy more clones for other purposes or opt to spend gp elsewhere. It's just a rough guideline of how to efficiently spend gp in terms of building benefits.

I don't believe it's accurate at all though personally because the math assumes that all clones are created equal in worth when they aren't. So for instance, say you have 100k clones in building. Based on where you placed them can alter the time effectiveness. IE: 1000 clones as your base speed, takes double to half that time and so forth. So the gap widdens the more clones you invest into one monument or upgrade making them less and less effective. Because of this, I've been generally ignoring that particular rule of thumb. I got myself up to that 775ish mark, bought up the amount of clones I felt suited my needs then focused all the gp henceforth straight into building speed and 2x creations every so often.

As for the other point on the 50gp creation purchase, it adjusts the output of all creations. Has nothing to do with materials input or multiplying by zero. So on first purchase (bringing it up to 2), all outputs will hand you 2 of anything including clones, light, stone and anything else you are worried it doesn't alter. This is a fairly good purchase later on when you are able to amass gp easily. It is in no way meant to be something you save up for early on and splurge on.

[CarnageByM]

Originally posted by roboticaust:

Originally posted by CptEgo:

I'm not able to hit that. Not even remotely close.

It doesn't take long to reach that point at all. It's why all the guides including the one packaged in the game suggests doing so. Basic gist of early game is increasing your creation to that point as well as getting your clone amount up to the base cap (999999). After that point you'll be strong enough to make a handful of god power and progress easily per run. There's a few playstyles that open up as to how to effectively spend gp after reaching this point, so I won't tell you how to play, but for sure you want to focus that creation speed and clones available as soon as humanly possible or the game feels like a brick wall until you do.

Yea. I found out hehe. I'm already way past 60 Duocillion since I wrote that post.

[trgKai]

Originally posted by roboticaust:

Originally posted by muljostpho:

-snip-

As for the other point on the 50gp creation purchase, it adjusts the output of all creations. Has nothing to do with materials input or multiplying by zero.

Actually, it does reduce requirements for creations. For example, at 10 Creation Count, you only need 7.75x the normal requirements instead of 10x. At 20 count, you only need 12.75x instead of 20x.

It makes a huge difference when you have AutoBuy down to 100% and you can just leave Creation set to Nations. Every Create Count after the 10th requires half the creations it would one at a time, which adds up very quickly.

[roboticaust]

Originally posted by KaiGamingLive:

Originally posted by roboticaust:

As for the other point on the 50gp creation purchase, it adjusts the output of all creations. Has nothing to do with materials input or multiplying by zero.

Actually, it does reduce requirements for creations. For example, at 10 Creation Count, you only need 7.75x the normal requirements instead of 10x. At 20 count, you only need 12.75x instead of 20x.

It makes a huge difference when you have AutoBuy down to 100% and you can just leave Creation set to Nations. Every Create Count after the 10th requires half the creations it would one at a time, which adds up very quickly.

Interesting. I guess I really paid it no mind aside from seeing it spit out extra creations.

[phadin]

Never realized that for creation cost. Interesting. now I'm really regretting trying to build my first universe on my first rebirth after defeating Baal for the first time.

but... I'm a couple weeks in now, just got my first galexy, and I figure 2 more weeks to get my universe at the speed my divinity generator is now going. Currently at 3 trillion divinity per second, will be up to 4 trillion per second by the end of the weekend.

Just can't decide when I'm done if I want to try double rebirth challenge, or do a UBC and try to stock up a bunch more god power.

[best bulliet target]

go double if you hav about 100 or so GP (you wanna move your stats meter around to help it along) but just normal rebirth speed runs yelled more then a challange does. and to do a speed run you just set a goal on time + god boss and stick to it no matter the stats. (but do try to keep them green or just barely) and us your speciel fights to gain faster divinty