When to do CPC and PMC?

[Fel]

After completing my short term goals of finishing DRCs and going up the p baals until it slows down too much (I reached 30 for now), I did a few GSC but I quickly realized that I didn't have the stats to clear the ones past susano or athena in a decent time, so I looked at the rest of the challenges to see what could be good.

After considering for a while I decided to do a few CPCs because I tend to make quite a bit of crystals, so spending less clones and having them complete faster seems like a good thing to go for.

Here is what my challenges look like right now:
Ultimate Universe Challenges: 2
All Achievements Challenges: 13
Ultimate Pet Challenges: 8
Crystal Power Challenges: 3
Double Rebirth Challenges: 50
God Skip Challenges: 4
Ultimate Baal Challenges: 1
Clone Buildup Challenges: 2
Ultimate Arty Challenges: 1
Day Pet Challenge highest Multi: 2.786 E+6


I know I could do a few more GSC that don't affect monuments and upgrades, but I was specifically looking at CPC and PMC as those challenges both affect crystals and do not reset multipliers, making them decent at GP gains too.

I went for CPC for now because PMC sound like they coult take just as much time if not more compared to AACs, but I wanted to know what other people thought about those two challenges and when to do them.

[muljostpho]

Any advice I ever see about CPC always talks about trying to optimize it for fastest completion (consisting of lots of runs that are all just a few hours long), but through the 23 of them I've finished so far I've been treating them more casually than that (ending up with runs lasting closer to a full day) and doing everything else that I can do alongside the CP.

CPC optimization advice does specifically call for at least 4 PMCs completed though. Apparently that's just the right amount of extra energy to get one extra module upgrade within the length of runs that they suggest making within the CPCs. (And with whatever assumptions they're making about number of crystal slots unlocked and the exact strategy of which modules get built up to which levels.)

I have done one PMC but I think the length of that run was comparable to an AAC. (And then each next PMC moves the target out farther away.) I think it took me that long to get to where I could take out enough UBv2s to multiply my planet multi past the target though. (Needed at least a few of them for that first target.)

Pretty sure that it could be done quicker than that with more clones to put on Might and/or with 1KCs completed for faster Might leveling. I don't think I'd done any 1KCs yet when I tried that one, and with 10 of them completed now and a couple million more clones to work with I've gotten it to where I'm beating ITRTGv2 within my day-long runs in my CPCs now. Having completed more UUCs since then might also help when I get back to trying PMC again, since the higher planet level will mean quicker payout from powersurge. I can't bb powersurge yet but it's getting close. I hear that powersurge gets to be crazy powerful for your planet multi when you can start leveling it that fast.

If it helps, for comparison, link to my most recent post in the "Show Me Your Stats" thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/466170/discussions/0/154642447914227739/?ctp=10#c1729828401679171721

And link to my post a couple months earlier, which was about a week after when I actually completed that one PMC I've done:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/466170/discussions/0/154642447914227739/?ctp=9#c1696046342851147410

[Kitsunegari]

I'm on the same page as Muljostpho when it comes to the CPC. I didn't want to rush through it because I wanted to squeeze out as much CP as possible when doing them (which ended up being ~10k CP in the end). This usually meant ~1 day rebirths, the same as suggested and getting level 20-22 / 12-14 / 7-10 on respective crystals.

As for PMC the 1KC's / NRC's / UUC / Day baal coupled with large clone count is the best route we have.

[Fel]

I understand the idea of longer rebirths for CPC, but I am already doing that for the longer rebirth challenges (and used to do that for two rebiths for about 15 DRCs), so I already have piled 11k CP.
I think I am going to continue to do the CPCs with around 6h15 rebirths, because that means quite a lot more CP per day (14-15, 6-7 and 2-4 respectively for crystals 3 times a day) while being nearly optimal for pets (45k+ % on stat boosts in 15 minutes, 6 hours campaign and feeding at 50%), killing p baals to around 15, making monuments, levelling might a bit and leaving enough time to grow afky multiplier at a decent speed (around 5 multiplier per rebirth at 500).

Overall I am using CPC as an excuse to do runs of that length while still completing challenges for added benefits, and it just happens to be around the recomended time.


As for PMC, I am definitely under-prepared for them, because the pre-requisites to do them properly are pretty much out of reach at my current stats (1KC can still be done even if it would take quite a while, but NRC would take over a week per try).
I think NRC benefits quite a bit from AAC too, being able to get 50% more multiplier from achievements and reaching them in half the time seem like it would make it a must-have unless you have stats high enough to power through it.

I am glad I asked before going blind in PMCs because it would probably have been a similar experience as when I started UAC without looking it up properly.
Thanks for the answers, it really helped.


EDIT: I just noticed that 6h god power campaign is just enough to have my cat and camel at 99% and 100% respectively, so I send the pumpkin to food, rudolph goat fairy and dog to items, cat and camel to god power and the remaining 10 to growth for an end result that seem nearly optimal.

[feliscon]

Might be nice to have an updated 'recommended challenge order' thread for all of them with the new challenges.

Discussion is interesting since there's pretty much a 'best' order, but it also depends on preference and how much you like certain challenges or not.

I started trying to do the challenges 'properly', but I found I just got too bored doing the same challenge over and over until I maxed it out. I have to do a few and then switch to different ones, or long climbing rebirths etc. to still enjoy the game (and there's no point playing if it stops being fun or interesting).

[Fel]

It also depends on your play style quite a bit, if you barely use pets because you are doing only sub-3h runs then you can mostly skip pet-related challenges (especially DPC that becomes useless if you never feed them).

Planet/crystal challenges are only good value for your time if you put quite a bit of focus on building up your CP, and UBC/UAC are a not great outside of the first one unless you do a lot of them to go in very high p baals (which requires a high statistics multiplier in order to be worth it).

AAC can be done pretty much any time when you reached p baal 5+ just before the challenge and are not really affected by any of your stats as long as you can BB the last monster by the time you unlock Might (unless you are really early and can't build up your divinity generator enough to make 1 universe by the time you reach the last achievement for monsters/trainings, but that's usually not a concern).

That said, it's definitely true that there are now quite a lot more challenges, and a decent amount of them can be done early, potentially mixing with DRCs and such to make it less repetitive, so it might be a good idea to find a new order for challenges for both the new and older players.
But as you can see from here, there are also cases where late challenges could severely benefit earlier ones (PMC boosts CPC a whole lot, but CPC itself isn't exactly a late challenge).


What I did between DRCs to keep it from being boring was a few UPCs and AACs, as they both play very differently, with UPC demanding frequent attention and AAC being a challenge that can be very relaxed as you barely have anything to do after the initial setup outside of afky and UBs.
You can also put a day challenge here and there for fun more than progress or just a few normal rebirths in a style you prefer.

[muljostpho]

Wow, looking back at that old "challenge order" topic and seeing how relatively few of them were in the game (UBC, UAC, DRC, 1KC, NRC, UUC, AAC) when the topic was first started. Quite a few additions to the lineup since then. (CBC, UCC, GSC, NDC, PBC, BHC, UPC, CPC, PMC, 1KBHC, and all 5 of the day challenges.) Lots of options at different stages of progress and lots of flexibility for each player's own preference in play style (or for when a player just gets struck with being in the mood for a change of pace).

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Fel:

What I did between DRCs to keep it from being boring was a few UPCs and AACs, as they both play very differently, with UPC demanding frequent attention and AAC being a challenge that can be very relaxed as you barely have anything to do after the initial setup outside of afky and UBs.
You can also put a day challenge here and there for fun more than progress or just a few normal rebirths in a style you prefer.

That's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. Done 21 DRCs, 3 AACs and on my 4th UPC. Recently hit 1M clones though, and want to try to power through the CBCs to get 2M and they're a good 'early' challenge since there isn't all that much you can do to speed them up.

Doubt I'll get through all of them without getting bored though, will need to alternate again.

[Darth Faber]

Originally posted by feliscon:

That's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. Done 21 DRCs, 3 AACs and on my 4th UPC. Recently hit 1M clones though, and want to try to power through the CBCs to get 2M and they're a good 'early' challenge since there isn't all that much you can do to speed them up.

Doubt I'll get through all of them without getting bored though, will need to alternate again.

There's no way to massively speed up CBCs but a bunch of rewards do carry over and they all can help a bit. 50 AAC gives achievements 50% earlier and gives a 50% better reward for them. DRC Gives you bonus might, which increases stats and unleash (+100% to +200% atk from +50 on all might). DMC makes unleashes better you probably will get 20-40% better unleashes from that.

Pets can make a big difference, if you have both Pet Exp overflow and custom pet clones you level them fairly well with only a few hundred clones. IF you have a large number of pets you can level them for 35 min, then send off 10 for a GP campaign.

With a bunch of these together you can get CBC consitantly to less than 1 day without too much active playing, 16h is possible but takes a LOT of effort and active play.

[TanisX]

You can get CBC down to a little more than 13 hrs but it will take the two creation speed booster items (only use the 2nd one on your last rebirth), pets that can get to 1 mill % in 15-16 mins, 50 AAC will also help. If you can handle around 9 hours of 15-16 min runs that is.

[Fel]

A lazier approach of CBC is doing Might runs with 50 DRCs (if possible with at least the full 999% on rebirth boost from pets), making a few monuments when you can.
By the time you collect enough GP for the 245% CS, you should be able to reach the x10 speed naturally just from spending a bit of time and making a single lighthouse, without needing boosts from consumables.

It's obvious that consumables help a lot to speed things up, same with full AAC, but they are not exactly necessary if you take advantage of DRC+Might runs.

[muljostpho]

I had tried a CBC once and canceled out of it (or loaded my backed up save) when it felt like it was taking too way long. That might have been way long ago at this point though, possibly back before at least half of my DRCs. Maybe I should take another look at that one at some point.

(Right now, though, I'm just about to finish my last CPC and then I've got a bit of P.Baal climbing that I intend to do after that because I pushed my highest from 41 to 47 as I finished my last 5 CPCs and I want to finish the climb to 50 to unlock the slime pet. My general intention for what to do next after that was to return to 1KCs, NDCs, and PBCs (10, 10, and 5 of those completed so far). But I'll see what mood strikes me when I get to that point.)

[Fel]

CBC are tedious no matter how advanced you are, and the rewards not that great considering the amount of work.

The ghost might levels have a weird value too, because they don't count towards total might, and they lower in value as your clone count gets higher.
Still, depending on your play style, those extra might levels can really help a lot, that's an extra 50% worker clone efficiency, powersurge speed and stats right at Might unlock, so if your style doesn't revlve around training Might all that much it's a still a good boost to get.
The million clone cap is similarly "not bad but not great".

The problem is that it's a bit like UBC/UAC, it sounds great on paper but by the time you can start doing them with bonus cap as a goal, you probably don't need the boost as much anymore (for UBC/UAC, you probably already have p baal 50's pet for example).

[muljostpho]

Originally posted by Fel:

The ghost might levels have a weird value too, because they don't count towards total might, and they lower in value as your clone count gets higher.
Still, depending on your play style, those extra might levels can really help a lot, that's an extra 50% worker clone efficiency, powersurge speed and stats right at Might unlock, so if your style doesn't revlve around training Might all that much it's a still a good boost to get.
The million clone cap is similarly "not bad but not great".

It might be nice to have the extra Might levels in the 1KCs since there isn't much Might leveling that can be done within that challenge and I'll pretty much only ever have the levels that I have when the tab unlocks. I can get through them just fine without it though. In the 10 1KCs I've done so far my record was just under 8 hours. For comparison: in both the DRC (all 50 completed) and the NDC (10 completed so far) my records were just under 7 hours.

But yeah, having high clones in most other scenarios... I'm at 8.3M clones (which has been rising at a pretty decent pace) and if I focus between 1.5M to 2M apiece onto the two relevant Mights I can get over 500 levels Attack+ & over 500 levels Defense+ and take down all 5 UBv2s within about 14-20 hours of a new rebirth. Doing the 50 CBCs could shave some time off the end of that leveling process and bump up my total clone count by about 1/8 of my current value, but I think that finishing up my other 30 1KCs could probably have a more drastic impact on the overall total time that leveling to 500+ requires.

Originally posted by Fel:

The problem is that it's a bit like UBC/UAC, it sounds great on paper but by the time you can start doing them with bonus cap as a goal, you probably don't need the boost as much anymore (for UBC/UAC, you probably already have p baal 50's pet for example).

My highest god defeated right now is P.Baal v48 and I intend to continue climbing to 50 very soon. Pet dungeon update should include at least a couple new pets at even higher P.Baals though, right? Still, yeah, having all 100 levels from DRC and CBC when I finally get around to doing the rest of my UBCs (or possibly even one or two UACs as well) could be nice but by the time I get there the way that the UBC/UAC reward helps make higher P.Baal climbs possible will mainly be just for seeing how high up I can set my record since most of the pets are unlocked already.

[TanisX]

Another reason to complete CBCs is that they are one of the requirements for ucc :(

[Fel]

UCC also requires capping PMC, which is not something easy to achieve unless you capped many other challenges firts, making UCC the most end game challenge to date.
By the time you reach the point where you can comfortably cap PMC, you should also have crazy high pet growth and a large amount of consumables, making CBC much easier to handle if you didn't do it yet.

Well, I guess it would still take nearly a month even by doing two per day, so it's definitely not something to take lightly.