Idling to Rule the Gods

Idling to Rule the Gods

n00bdragon Nov 19, 2019 @ 8:52pm
300k Pet Stones
After months of saving I've managed to hoard 300k pet stones. I was interested in purchasing the Crystal Improve so that I could easily get level 20 Ultimate Crystals and level 15 God Crystals but I saved my game and bought it and it didn't seem to increase my upgrade rate (I bought them up to level 25 with energy). I reloaded so I have my 300k stones back and I'm wondering if this is a bad choice. If that upgrade doesn't increase your conversion rate on those crystals I have no idea how you are supposed to get max level on either. It seems like it would take thousands of years to max out either one. Am I missing something here?
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muljostpho Nov 20, 2019 @ 8:48am 
It can be hard sometimes to see a difference with a lot of the changes in conversion rates. You get some odd little things going on in crystal conversions since there's some rounding in the math that the game uses to determine how many crystals of the next grade you get from it.

* By default, the conversion rates start at 90% for regular, 60% for ultimate, and 40% for god.
* With ICU, those starting rates are 115%, 85%, and 65%.
* Each level of a module adds 1% to that type of crystal's conversion rate. (No cap on this gain for any of the four regular crystals, but ultimate and god can each only gain up to 25% from this.)
* The above numbers are for converting grade 1s. Subtract 5% from the total for the rates when converting grade 2s. And again for the next grade. And again after that. And so on.
* Conversion rates are constrained within a range of 5% to 95%. Anything higher than 95% (like that 115% I just mentioned) will be treated as if it's 95%. And once you start dipping below 5% in a rate it'll just treat that as if it's 5%.

If you click the "info" button on the crystal factory it explains with an example how a conversion rate is actually used.

In that example, we're looking at 8 of the grade 1 ultimate crystals, we do not have Improved Crystal Upgrade, and we're ignoring the effect of module levels. So the conversion rate is 60%. Multiply 8 by 60% and that's 4.8. Round that down to 4 and that's how many grade 2 ultimates you end up with.

Suppose we look at that example again, but this time we do have ICU. Now the conversion rate is 85%. Multiply 8 by 85% and that's 6.8. So we end up with 6 grade 2 ultimates.

Take either of those cases and factor in a level 3 ultimate module. Without ICU, the conversion rate is 63%. 8 times 63% is 5.04, so we end up with 5 grade 2s. Or with ICU, the conversion rate is 88%. 8 times 88% is 7.04, so we end up with 7 grade 2s.

We don't see these steps up from the example's baseline of ending up with 4 grade 2s without ICU / ending up with 6 grade 2s with ICU until the 3rd level of the module. Any lower and you still end up rounding down to the same thing. Likewise, module levels above 3 will see no further step up in the results until you reach a certain level since they'll just keep rounding down to the same thing. You'd need a 75% conversion rate (no ICU, level 15 ultimate module) for 8 grade 1s to become 6 grade 2s. And... Well getting 8 back from 8 will be impossible since you'd need a 100% conversion rate (with ICU that's a level 15 ultimate module) and that's just going to get treated as a 95%.

The example didn't go into converting those grade 2s into grade 3s, but as I mentioned it subtracts 5% from whatever rates you were dealing with for the grade 1s. So in the base example where the rate was 60% and you ended up with 4 grade 2s, now you're applying a 55% rate to upgrade those 4 grade 2s into 2 grade 3s. (4 x 0.55 = 2.2, which rounds down to 2). Now go back and factor in that level 3 ultimate module and we're dealing with upgrading 5 grade 2s at a 58% conversion rate, and that ends up also making 2 grade 3s. (5 x 0.58 = 2.9, which rounds down to 2). You'd need a better level on the module than that to bump up the result in the grade 3s. But then it's entirely possible that that distinction will be lost in the next step when converting your grade 3s into grade 4s, and you'd need an even higher level on the module to see a better result in the grade 4s.

Don't get me wrong. ICU certainly does help. You're delaying how high of a grade you need to be dealing with before the conversion rates (ignoring module level) reach 5%. The thing is that it's just one part of a big complicated process that tends to be inefficient anyway.
n00bdragon Nov 20, 2019 @ 12:20pm 
I know how crystal upgrading works. My problem is that I have already bought 25 upgrade levels in God and Ultimate crystals via energy, which is the maximum you can get for those that affects conversion rate. When I purchase ICU it doesn't seem to further increase the conversion rate (as I understood it, with ICU and 25 energy-purchased levels, my base conversion rate before capping would have been 110% for ultimate crystals and 90% for god crystals). Was that incorrect? Does ICU not stack with the conversion rate from levels purchased with energy?
n00bdragon Nov 20, 2019 @ 1:44pm 
Alright, having gotten home and having had more time to look into it I've discovered the answer: YES IT DOES STACK, but the "Max" button doesn't take ICU into account for some reason when it predicts how many crystals you will end up with after clicking it. The prediction is bugged but clicking it still gives you the correct number of crystals.
muljostpho Nov 21, 2019 @ 3:28pm 
There have been times (though I never looked closely to really prove or disprove this) when coming back after being afk for a while and spending a bunch of energy on module levels where it has felt like the results in the tooltips for the max buttons don't account for the updated module levels when there should have been enough change to make a difference. Maybe there's an oversight in when / how often the game updates those tooltips or something? Because I think it is accounting for ICU and module levels that were already in place when I've thought that I've noticed this. I think it's just recent changes that it fails to account for. I could be wrong though. Like I said, I haven't looked too closely at it.
Darth Faber Nov 22, 2019 @ 7:26pm 
Improved Crystal upgrade improves the upgrade percentage by 25%. So with a Lv25 factory, without the upgrade crystals Lv 1-7 will upgrade at 95%. With the upgrade levels 1-12 will.
Some upgrades you may need to save/load or open/close the game for them to properly take effect.
If you want to test it out without losing the pet stones, Save locally, save online, copy your manual save to a different location, then buy it and save and load locally. You'll have 15 minutes before the online save triggers again, and if you don't like it, load the online save.

This does make a huge difference to the number of crystals you need. With a Lv25 factory it goes from 9.4B to 3.8M for a grade 30 basic crystal. You can get another 5% bonus with Challenge points, that brings it to 420k.
Darth Faber Nov 22, 2019 @ 7:28pm 
So the shortest answer is, yes it does stack, yes the estimates in the game work with ICU, but you probably have to close/re-open the game for it to refresh.
Jack Kenseng Nov 23, 2019 @ 2:03pm 
I find that I have to equip and unequip crystals to update the tooltip after leveling modules.
YukiD1st Nov 24, 2019 @ 6:44am 
I don't think I understood your question.
Nico Nov 25, 2019 @ 7:02am 
But it does increase your conversion rate. But did you maybe 'just' look at the tooltip of th emax button after you bought the ICU, and did then reload your old save very fast?
Since there is a small bug, that the max tooltip only changes when you created new crystals, not when you upgrade modules or buy ICU ... aka, did you really tried hitting max before and after buying it? (and reloading after hitting it ofc)

edit: oh, wow, why didn't Steam show me the other answers sooner?
Last edited by Nico; Nov 25, 2019 @ 7:03am
muljostpho Nov 25, 2019 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by Nico:
edit: oh, wow, why didn't Steam show me the other answers sooner?

I've been noticing that over the last week or two. It'll just randomly decide not to bother loading replies. You might be able to get it to load properly, sooner or later, if you reload the thread a dozen times. I have no idea why it's been like this though.
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Date Posted: Nov 19, 2019 @ 8:52pm
Posts: 11