Boring (to me)

[Plato]

Hate to say it, but this game is BORING(to me)!

Atleast add some like, Events and Objectives. It feels like aimlessly wandering with no real set goal. No real excitement. Game definitely has potential but it is way too lacking.

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by some moron:

I got bored of this game. (lol) Then I changed the way I played it and now I am not bored and looking forward to each new game challenge.
Easy difficulty, as you say, watches the paint grow and needs a fast forward.
But now, that first ten days is super busy for me. I have to micromanage everything.
What you need to do, is turn on the four max disasters. (there is a singe setting for this but that doesn't seem to do the same thing). Also turn on inflation, long ride, and minimum resources. This will keep you scrambling. And requiring you to plan far in advance. (Three years for a rocket ride!!! That's more realistic though)

Do not use Laika because it's too easy. And don't use Space Race because it's too easy.
To me in this game there is only one goal.
The goal is to open your domes as early as possible.
We tried to have a race between two players on the same map but it's not possible because there are random events that heavily influence the play-through.
Go ahead and post the earliest date when you open your domes, and with what difficulty.
I can't remember how long it takes me, 200 sols? at 800% difficulty. (I got some new games and have been playing them)

Yeah if you keep your people safe on earth until the whole thing is terraformed then yeah it's an easy game and also you lose because it takes longer to terraform without colonists than with.

Don't forget the bonuses from the sponsors which you won't get without colonists. (If you don't know about those they are one of the selections at bottom of screen)

So, what's your record time for opening your domes, at any difficulty level?

PS I looked at the sales page for the ONI and one difference I see is that the ONI game looks like a "game", but I find SM very aesthetically pleasing. It looks like a movie. I enjoy the scenery. Possibly ONI is a more interesting game but this one I enjoy playing because I like the way it looks. You can get some very dramatic scenes with the chasms and cliffs. It turns out I DO like watching the grass grow. And the bushes and trees and lakes oh my

I note that you aren't forbidding brazil under that "too easy"...

Do brazils money printing abilities just not stack up with other options when it comes to high level play? It sure makes things easy for low level, beginner play while learning the mechanics and controls, but maybe it just doesn't stack up against other options once you already know what you're doing?

[Darkaiser]

https://i.imgur.com/W0hHe3v.jpg


That's bait.

[Plato]

LOL What this discussion became. I'll read it all again one day. it's ALIVE!

[socratessoul]

I found this game hard to get into as well. But one thing I realized is that this game is more like Sim City than say Starcraft, and I notice the OP mentioned Warcraft. It's not Warcraft, it's Sim City. In Sim City, you a build a city, and ... you just keep building, it's a city builder. Surviving Mars is a more creative city in that you have to build it on Mars instead of Earth. Another good analogy is Sims because there is no goal in Sims except developing characters over time.

I think one of the big questions to ask is, "What makes this game different from others? Why should I play this one instead of another?"

The genre of Surviving Mars is a city building game. I think the two best City Building Games on the market right now are Frostpunk and Surviving Mars. Anno is probably the other one but I haven't played it. If you love city building games then you'll love Surviving Mars. If you don't like them, why are you here? If you've never played one, now is the chance to explore it. CitiesSkyline is probably the most accessible city building game for someone that hasn't played it. Surviving Mars may be a bit too much at first. You play Surviving Mars because it's different from other such City building Games, you get to build on a different planet! On Mars!!!! And it does a spectacular job. It really opens up the science fiction. Unlike other City Building Games you have to think about oxygen, and building domes, before you can even begin to think about shipping people over on rockets. It's a great twist to the traditional city builder.

The true art of this game though is in it's spectacular art. If you press Q and S at the same time the camera will pan down to the point where you are looking directly across the land and you can see Martian mountains in the distance, and you can literally get eye to eye with your sims and see them rising in their futuristic seat at the Grocer or sitting down at the Diner. You can even see the freakin' menu on the wall! This really adds the soul to the game, because you get a feel and an appreciation for living on Mars itself, which in reality is something really cool to think about. So I think this game is really successful in that it takes a real concept - living on Mars - and brings it to life.

This is why you should play Surviving Mars - because it brings a reality to something that humanity could be so close to achieving. I suspect there's more than a little bit of an agenda to teach the general public about science and astrophysics too, but I'll let that one slide ...

[socratessoul]

BTW I just looked up city building games on Wikipedia, and I just realized all my favourite games throughout my entire life are on the list haha! Talk about throw back. My two favourite games as a kid were The Settlers and Stronghold, SO GOOD! Not to mention SimCity and Constructor ... and ... and ... I still have the Constructor game box sitting on my bookshelf hahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[some moron]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

I note that you aren't forbidding brazil under that "too easy"...

Do brazils money printing abilities just not stack up with other options when it comes to high level play? It sure makes things easy for low level, beginner play while learning the mechanics and controls, but maybe it just doesn't stack up against other options once you already know what you're doing?

Hey fractal sorry just seeing this now.
I am not familiar with Brasil because it's other bonuses are for passageways and I don't use passageways so I never use them. So that could be a goo challenge for me! To use Brasil.
$35M per colonist. I think tourists are $30M so that's a tiny bit more. I think the thing is, you can only import 12 on the first rocket, so that's not much money, then for the early game, I still can't bring that many colonists to make a big deal because I don't have the support for them. But maybe I could with the extra funding?
It's important to realize at some point (mid game? late game?) definitely after building mohole you are exporting so much rare that money becomes a non-issue. Also, I try to wean off importing colonists because I prefer martians who are resistant to disaster and also to outdoors. So I never import a TON of earthlings. But maybe it's enough that they pay for themselves. Now I want to play a game using Brasil lol

Some of the other sponsors have some great bonuses that could be better than free money, such as cheaper building, better sales price. Then again, the other good bonuses also come with some drawbacks.
I think a bigger benefit from Brasil is the starting $900M. that's more than average and is immediately available. I find money at the start of the game is most important, to get you through that time when you run out of supplies and aren't quite exporting rare.
If you DO use passageways, yeah I agree with you this may be an easy/good sponsor. In fact I would use free passageways just to avoid domes being cut off by dust storms or meteors.
So I WOULD call this sponsor easier, but no I'm not gonna call it "too easy", not like IMM, or ranches.

Fractal, do YOU use Brasil? Do you like it more than other sponsors? Is the one you would choose if we were having a head 2 head race to terraform?

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by socratessoul:

I found this game hard to get into as well. But one thing I realized is that this game is more like Sim City than say Starcraft, and I notice the OP mentioned Warcraft. It's not Warcraft, it's Sim City. In Sim City, you a build a city, and ... you just keep building, it's a city builder. Surviving Mars is a more creative city in that you have to build it on Mars instead of Earth. Another good analogy is Sims because there is no goal in Sims except developing characters over time.

I think one of the big questions to ask is, "What makes this game different from others? Why should I play this one instead of another?"

The genre of Surviving Mars is a city building game. I think the two best City Building Games on the market right now are Frostpunk and Surviving Mars. Anno is probably the other one but I haven't played it. If you love city building games then you'll love Surviving Mars. If you don't like them, why are you here? If you've never played one, now is the chance to explore it. CitiesSkyline is probably the most accessible city building game for someone that hasn't played it. Surviving Mars may be a bit too much at first. You play Surviving Mars because it's different from other such City building Games, you get to build on a different planet! On Mars!!!! And it does a spectacular job. It really opens up the science fiction. Unlike other City Building Games you have to think about oxygen, and building domes, before you can even begin to think about shipping people over on rockets. It's a great twist to the traditional city builder.

The true art of this game though is in it's spectacular art. If you press Q and S at the same time the camera will pan down to the point where you are looking directly across the land and you can see Martian mountains in the distance, and you can literally get eye to eye with your sims and see them rising in their futuristic seat at the Grocer or sitting down at the Diner. You can even see the freakin' menu on the wall! This really adds the soul to the game, because you get a feel and an appreciation for living on Mars itself, which in reality is something really cool to think about. So I think this game is really successful in that it takes a real concept - living on Mars - and brings it to life.

This is why you should play Surviving Mars - because it brings a reality to something that humanity could be so close to achieving. I suspect there's more than a little bit of an agenda to teach the general public about science and astrophysics too, but I'll let that one slide ...

I'd argue Frostpunk is not really a city building game at its core. It obviously has those elements, but the core gameplay is about crisis resource management, the game always tries to stop you snowballing and tries to make you always feel like you are limping from one crisis to another, the fact that endless mode and endurance mode are so dull in that game helps prove this, just building a city in Frostpunk, without that crisis management, is boring.

[socratessoul]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it doesn't really matter, they're all just names. Looking on Wikipedia they might call it a subgenre 'Colony Management' game which 'may feature combat against hostile entities of the remote environment, typically not a feature of other subgenres.' What's interesting to me is that before Frostpunk and Surviving Mars there was a hiatus of 3 years where there was no City Building. It's almost like there was nothing else left to do until someone came along and took it in a different direction. It may be a necessary development in City Building Games, as by their nature they can seem ... pointless given the complexity of games now.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by socratessoul:

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it doesn't really matter, they're all just names. Looking on Wikipedia they might call it a subgenre 'Colony Management' game which 'may feature combat against hostile entities of the remote environment, typically not a feature of other subgenres.' What's interesting to me is that before Frostpunk and Surviving Mars there was a hiatus of 3 years where there was no City Building. It's almost like there was nothing else left to do until someone came along and took it in a different direction. It may be a necessary development in City Building Games, as by their nature they can seem ... pointless given the complexity of games now.

I don't agree, you can tell by seeing various people who wanted to play Frostpunk, then post on the forums about how the game sucks cause they cannot build anything and are constantly starved for resources, and like I said, the 'endless' mode is considered by most people to be really boring because of the lack of story, or goals. The game doesn't stand tall on its city building elements.

It'd be like saying Minecraft is a First Person Shooter because you get a bow or a crossbow and can shoot monsters....
Sure, it HAS those elements, but its really, really not the core gameplay and recommending it to someone who wants to play a FPS is a bad idea.
Frostpunk is the same and touting it as a City Builder will just disappoint players super into that genre as its city building mechanics are really shallow.

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by some moron:

Originally posted by fractalgem:

I note that you aren't forbidding brazil under that "too easy"...

Do brazils money printing abilities just not stack up with other options when it comes to high level play? It sure makes things easy for low level, beginner play while learning the mechanics and controls, but maybe it just doesn't stack up against other options once you already know what you're doing?

Hey fractal sorry just seeing this now.
I am not familiar with Brasil because it's other bonuses are for passageways and I don't use passageways so I never use them. So that could be a goo challenge for me! To use Brasil.
$35M per colonist. I think tourists are $30M so that's a tiny bit more. I think the thing is, you can only import 12 on the first rocket, so that's not much money, then for the early game, I still can't bring that many colonists to make a big deal because I don't have the support for them. But maybe I could with the extra funding?
It's important to realize at some point (mid game? late game?) definitely after building mohole you are exporting so much rare that money becomes a non-issue. Also, I try to wean off importing colonists because I prefer martians who are resistant to disaster and also to outdoors. So I never import a TON of earthlings. But maybe it's enough that they pay for themselves. Now I want to play a game using Brasil lol

Some of the other sponsors have some great bonuses that could be better than free money, such as cheaper building, better sales price. Then again, the other good bonuses also come with some drawbacks.
I think a bigger benefit from Brasil is the starting $900M. that's more than average and is immediately available. I find money at the start of the game is most important, to get you through that time when you run out of supplies and aren't quite exporting rare.
If you DO use passageways, yeah I agree with you this may be an easy/good sponsor. In fact I would use free passageways just to avoid domes being cut off by dust storms or meteors.
So I WOULD call this sponsor easier, but no I'm not gonna call it "too easy", not like IMM, or ranches.

Fractal, do YOU use Brasil? Do you like it more than other sponsors? Is the one you would choose if we were having a head 2 head race to terraform?

I was referring to the option to turn waste rock into rare minerals, though that sounds convenient as well.

It's the only one i've really played with so far, as it seemed a good starting option to learn the mechanics and controls with.


Just goes to show how little i've played this game I guess.

[ElPrezCBF]

Originally posted by Jon_Smith:

Yeah, ok, you are missing the point and making a strawman that I am trying to define what boring is and applying that to your post. I've been clear and consistent in saying I am using what other people think as boring to tailor feedback and/or advice to them.

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

This is what you said: I felt your advice was 'oh you think the game is slow, <there is alot of waiting and there aren't many choices to solve a problem>, well then if you don't get water in your starting sector then you have to just wait around and passively scan until you find water'

The part in parenthesis is still the perspective of others, perhaps I should have written 'oh you think the game is slow AND there is alot of waiting and there aren't many choices to solve a problem, well then if you don't get water in your starting sector then you have to just wait around and passively scan until you find water'

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

My question was to see if you're arguing based on experience with multiple ways of playing rather than a "high and mighty" attitude that those who don't play aggressively like you give bad advice period.

No, I've been clear again and again. I'm arguing that your advice is terrible advice to give someone who finds the game boring for the reasons THEY have stated, it shows a complete lack of perspective and empathy for what they consider wrong with the game....
Why is this hard to understand? I don't care if your advice results in a 'successful' colony or not, thats not relevant.

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

You could be waiting for scanning/construction but planning your next move, editing building layout, managing rocket shipments, reassigning drones/vehicles, changing tech priorities etc. And all these even on a lower challenge. Why should anyone feel this is boring?

Again, the question shows a lack of empathy or willingness to understand other peoples perspectives.
One person made it clear, the game is boring to them because there is no combat. Thats already a clear answer why anyone should feel doing all that is boring. They want combat, action, military tactics etc. Giving them advice to instead manage a rocket shipment or reassign drones and vehicles is bad advice to give them. I hope you can see and understand that and realise thats my point.
People are saying they find the waiting in the game boring, and you are telling them to play the game and employ a strategy that involves lots of waiting.....

Maybe the argument sidetracked due to poor communication. If you're arguing about what's boring, then you define what you mean by that and don't assume you speak for all or that everyone else defines boring exactly the way you do.

People might find a game "boring" due to a multitude of reasons e.g.: unmet expectations like lack of combat, poor understanding of game mechanics, lack of education over non-combat mechanics that might subsequently become interesting to them, comparison with other games that may or may not be comparable, unique personal preferences like a lack of patience in trying scenarios that call for slower paced gameplay. So before you say that others lack empathy, look at your own argument first to see how it actually sounds like you're pushing just one definition of "boring" down others' throats.

[Hedning]

I have played several colony sims, including frostpunk and they are billions. What frostpunk and they are billions are doing to have difficulty is impose a time limit. You must be ready for the cold or the zombie horde by this time else you outright lose or are punished severely so reaching the next time limit is harder. This game doesn't have that. What this game has is challenge mode, but the time limit on challenge mode, even perfect score, is extremely generous. Just a few examples (also I play without any dlc)
-Founding fathers: Perfect 6 sols, my time 3 sols (2nd playthrough).
-Baby steps: Perfect 13, my time 6 (1st playthrough).
-New eden: Perfect 40, my time 13 (1st).
-Wonderful life: Perfect 60, my time 19 (2nd).
-Elbrus: Perfect 100, my time 34 (1st).

This tells me that they made the game easy on purpose, because frostpunk and they are billions could also have increased the time limit by x2 or x3 and they would have become as easy as this game. When I first bought frostpunk I was immediately disappointed by how easy it was, but what they did in response to public outcry was add a new difficulty level. They are billions has become easier, but it started out actually hard.

I wasn't here for the beginning of this game, but I can see that the dlc it has got has made it even easier, like the "rivals" (aka support missions), new rovers, and smaller factories, and even more free stuff added to current missions like a free colonist supply pod. The target audience of this game must therefore be more casual, not looking for the game to be a challenge. I think challenge mode is a good compromise, because even if the "perfect" time is a joke you can still compete with yourself to see how fast you can get for an infinite challenge.

[ElPrezCBF]

Originally posted by Hedning:

I have played several colony sims, including frostpunk and they are billions. What frostpunk and they are billions are doing to have difficulty is impose a time limit. You must be ready for the cold or the zombie horde by this time else you outright lose or are punished severely so reaching the next time limit is harder. This game doesn't have that. What this game has is challenge mode, but the time limit on challenge mode, even perfect score, is extremely generous. Just a few examples (also I play without any dlc)
-Founding fathers: Perfect 6 sols, my time 3 sols (2nd playthrough).
-Baby steps: Perfect 13, my time 6 (1st playthrough).
-New eden: Perfect 40, my time 13 (1st).
-Wonderful life: Perfect 60, my time 19 (2nd).
-Elbrus: Perfect 100, my time 34 (1st).

This tells me that they made the game easy on purpose, because frostpunk and they are billions could also have increased the time limit by x2 or x3 and they would have become as easy as this game. When I first bought frostpunk I was immediately disappointed by how easy it was, but what they did in response to public outcry was add a new difficulty level. They are billions has become easier, but it started out actually hard.

I wasn't here for the beginning of this game, but I can see that the dlc it has got has made it even easier, like the "rivals" (aka support missions), new rovers, and smaller factories, and even more free stuff added to current missions like a free colonist supply pod. The target audience of this game must therefore be more casual, not looking for the game to be a challenge. I think challenge mode is a good compromise, because even if the "perfect" time is a joke you can still compete with yourself to see how fast you can get for an infinite challenge.

That's a fair assessment. I don't have they are billions, but played lots of Frostpunk. I think a lot depends on what exactly the player is looking for. What may seem to be a fair and interesting challenge to one might be a nightmarish micromanagement chore to another. Tbh, I'm flexible in adjusting my expectations whenever I play different games. Here, my expectation is that of a relaxing colony sim with some early game challenges that eventually give way to an outright breeze late game. But in Frostpunk, I switch my mindset to hardcore survival mode.

I think the issue that most games (including survival games) face is that the late game tends to become easier for the player due to progression mechanics. Some attempt to keep the challenge by introducing late game crises but run into the dilemma of how to balance gameplay without making it unfair or putting off all but the most hardcore players. SM and Frostpunk give me satisfaction in their own way though others may disagree and I'm fine with that. I'll go further to say that what is seen as a weakness of SM (lack of challenge esp late game) may actually be seen as a strength since the more hardcore the challenge, the less likely you'll want to play the game again if you're not hardcore enough. Oxygen Not Included flashback shock lol. In this regard, I could adjust the difficulty settings in SM without thinking too much about how it'll affect my experience since it doesn't demand from me the same level of hardcore expectation that other survival games do.

[some moron]

I wouldn't listen to that other guy, he was rude to me, he's a jerk. He also doesn't have the DLC, so if you do, then he doesn't know what he's talking about, it's a very different game.
Turn on the difficulty settings I mentioned in my guide to 600%-1000, and you will have very much the challenge and not because of some lame time limit, but because asteroids are crashing through the mega electric dust clouds during a cold snap, while inflation is spiraling and resources are low. And don't use tribby or mohill or ranches since they are unrealistically easy.

[ElPrezCBF]

Sure, the game can be as difficult as you want to make it (either through difficulty settings or self-imposed restrictions) but we're not talking about early to mid game when the challenge tends to be greater but late game when you're swimming in resources. How easily you get there varies of course.