Paradox's invasion of privacy

[DeadDancers]

I started up Surviving Mars today because it was offering a free weekend. Since it wouldn't let me auto-agree to the T&Cs, I actually read them. Then I read again. Then I Esc-out of the game and freaked because I'm pretty sure Paradox will have already taken all the data they listed (my usernames, passwords, email, including credit cards and paypal info just to name the barest handful) the second I booted up the game. It seemed pretty clear in the T&Cs.

Seriously, I don't mind data-mining my gaming habits. Knowing what I play and for how long blah blah can only (hopefully) lead to better games. It's the online-identity and financial theft followed by sending it to any third party they want (and no, not just if you make an account with them or buy stuff from them but simply by playing their game for free they can help themselves). Worst of all? Even if they only use it for 'normal' shadowy purposes, they still have my data without my consent and without any reasonable reason for having it.

Does anyone know of a civil law movement looking into companies like these and their over-greedy demands for data?

[DeadDancers]

The T&C says I have a right to be informed what data they have collected and to have it deleted upon demand so long as it is not required for a service I want - but you gotta create an account and give them data before you can go to https://support.paradoxplaza.com/hc/en-us and ask for the data they already have. >_<

[Enorats]

They may be out there, but ultimately it'll be up to legislators to actually implement laws against that crap. Hell will freeze over before that happens.

[MaebeKnot]

I don't understand how they have your CC and Paypal info. They can't just magically get that. Also how is it possible for them to have your data but then you have to give them your data to request what they have/get it removed. Either they have your data or they don't.

If they already have you data like you say, what's the harm in giving them your data again to have it removed? I'm pretty sure Steam already has more data about you then Paradox will ever have. I really confused by the concern here.

It reminds me of how people are worried about giving their social security number when applying to jobs since they don't want to give a computer the info. I don't understand why they would apply to a company if they don't trust it to give their social. Besides that info is already on the dark web thanks to companies like Equifax that got hacked multiply times.

[EleventhStar]

i'd try just sending an email to [e-mail] or some such email, i'm sure there is something listed somewhere.

don't think they can legally force you to make an account to get the info, but ultimately you will have to identify yourself in some way to get data about you (to prevent a random person asking for your data), and the best way to do that without actually revealing your identity is probably through an account.

(though keep in mind that you will probably ahve to link pdx account to steam account to prove you have a certain CD key, since i don't think yo ucan do that manually anymore. that process is supposed to be anonymous but let's be real here that linking has some form of financial worth to someone so...).,

bit scary they mention credit card info and stuff though... lets hope its just a copy pasted terms of use they also use on their own store..

[MaebeKnot]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

bit scary they mention credit card info and stuff though... lets hope its just a copy pasted terms of use they also use on their own store..

It legally has to be since the account is the same when used in game and on website.

[The Renderer]

Calm down, this is not how it works. They don't go around and randomly collect your data.
The agreement only states what they do with your data if they collect it. And they only do collect it when needed (e.g. they need to collect your CC data if you use it to pay with it in their store). Same with user names or email or password, which they obviously have to "collect" and store if you create a paradox account with, you guessed it, a user name, an email and a password.
And so on and so forth.

It's a very standard ToS. It's good that you read it, everyone should, but you evidently misunderstood a lot of it.

[PolecatEZ]

This is EULA trolling. Its the latest thing. Well, actually about a year old. The trolls need to get a new act.

They'll post some BS about their precious privacy that completely misinterprets the EULA and various plugins for the game, and then sit back and watch as people correct them. When they get hammered for being dumb, another troll starts another thread. It is a cyber attack with no real purpose other than getting companies to panic, and they do it because it can be effective in getting companies to react to phantom outrage.

[nemisis]

Perhaps it's a backdoor "future" advantage to collect data under the disguise of a gaming related data, whilst actually compiling a comprehensive meta structure of an individual for which the "OWNER" of such correlated data could then auction it off to the highest meta data miner/bidder... so the insurance companie wants to know how lazy you are? ask Steam,Uplay,Epic Games etc, want to know political ideologies? mine the meta "gaming" data in correlation with netflix,amazon,facebook, email, bank records, text messages among others and pretty soon they know your future decisions before you do...

William Binney formerly of the NSA was involved in Project Thin Thread, Prism etc, which connects all the meta data to ID people... Now Palantir, led by Peter Thiel, is using advance A.I to find anyone and everyone anywhere... If It's on a wire or in the air, it's intercepted.

Remember: The CIA has killed people based on METADATA via DRONE STRIKES with DOUBLE TAP PERK ENABLED. Pretty f'd up.

Block chain (Bitcoin SV) and Meta(net)physical Identities will radically change the world in the next 15 yrs. Look up: METAVIBE, BITSTAGRAM, AGORA.ICU, un_writer@twitter, METANET.ICU, Weather SV, Bitcoin piano, Bico.Media, Tonic POW, Bottle Browser, Etched Page, Fivebucks, Money Button, Yours.org, Memo.sv, and many more coming. ALL BUILT IN AND ON THE ORIGINAL BITCOIN BLOCKCHAIN. Knowledge is Power!

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by MaebeKnot:

It legally has to be since the account is the same when used in game and on website.

sure but what about all those people who don't have an account to play their games. sure it's convenient for pdx, but there really is no reason for those people to agree to terms for what essentially is a 3rd party.

[Joonyah]

You've been agreeing to the same EULAs for years. They all have that language, it's not new. Effectively it protects the company in case they "accidentally" collect info that isn't related to the game.

Don't worry, no one wants your goat porn collection.

Also, blockchain can be hacked just like anything else. That's not new either. ;)

[DirtyBlue929]

Originally posted by nemisis:

Perhaps it's a backdoor "future" advantage to collect data under the disguise of a gaming related data, whilst actually compiling a comprehensive meta structure of an individual for which the "OWNER" of such correlated data could then auction it off to the highest meta data miner/bidder... so the insurance companie wants to know how lazy you are? ask Steam,Uplay,Epic Games etc, want to know political ideologies? mine the meta "gaming" data in correlation with netflix,amazon,facebook, email, bank records, text messages among others and pretty soon they know your future decisions before you do...

William Binney formerly of the NSA was involved in Project Thin Thread, Prism etc, which connects all the meta data to ID people... Now Palantir, led by Peter Thiel, is using advance A.I to find anyone and everyone anywhere... If It's on a wire or in the air, it's intercepted.

Remember: The CIA has killed people based on METADATA via DRONE STRIKES with DOUBLE TAP PERK ENABLED. Pretty f'd up.

Block chain (Bitcoin SV) and Meta(net)physical Identities will radically change the world in the next 15 yrs. Look up: METAVIBE, BITSTAGRAM, AGORA.ICU, un_writer@twitter, METANET.ICU, Weather SV, Bitcoin piano, Bico.Media, Tonic POW, Bottle Browser, Etched Page, Fivebucks, Money Button, Yours.org, Memo.sv, and many more coming. ALL BUILT IN AND ON THE ORIGINAL BITCOIN BLOCKCHAIN. Knowledge is Power!

Please peddle your paranoia elsewhere.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by The Renderer:

Calm down, this is not how it works. They don't go around and randomly collect your data.
The agreement only states what they do with your data if they collect it. And they only do collect it when needed (e.g. they need to collect your CC data if you use it to pay with it in their store). Same with user names or email or password, which they obviously have to "collect" and store if you create a paradox account with, you guessed it, a user name, an email and a password.
And so on and so forth.

It's a very standard ToS. It's good that you read it, everyone should, but you evidently misunderstood a lot of it.

eh... just because they and many other companies don't do certain things doesn't mean they aren't allowed to after you agree.

doubt there is much difference in how a ToS words e..g. storing your account name so it actually works and scanning your computer for account names to autofill that field.

[Enorats]

Originally posted by MaebeKnot:

I don't understand how they have your CC and Paypal info. They can't just magically get that. Also how is it possible for them to have your data but then you have to give them your data to request what they have/get it removed. Either they have your data or they don't.

If they already have you data like you say, what's the harm in giving them your data again to have it removed? I'm pretty sure Steam already has more data about you then Paradox will ever have. I really confused by the concern here.

It reminds me of how people are worried about giving their social security number when applying to jobs since they don't want to give a computer the info. I don't understand why they would apply to a company if they don't trust it to give their social. Besides that info is already on the dark web thanks to companies like Equifax that got hacked multiply times.

It's just annoying, and it's not just things like credit card info. A few weeks ago I bought a Lego set on Amazon. Now every website I visit on the internet has Lego advertisements, Facebook is advertising Legos on every other post, YouTube's recommending Lego related videos, and Lego is spamming my inbox. I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Netflix started recommending all the Lego movies. Heck, I'm still getting occasional ads for a set of pans I googled 4 years ago just to check the price online buying them in a store.

The last thing I want are the games I play accessing info stored on my computer to support and enable that sort of garbage. It really shouldn't even be legal.

[MaebeKnot]

Originally posted by Enorats:

Originally posted by MaebeKnot:

I don't understand how they have your CC and Paypal info. They can't just magically get that. Also how is it possible for them to have your data but then you have to give them your data to request what they have/get it removed. Either they have your data or they don't.

If they already have you data like you say, what's the harm in giving them your data again to have it removed? I'm pretty sure Steam already has more data about you then Paradox will ever have. I really confused by the concern here.

It reminds me of how people are worried about giving their social security number when applying to jobs since they don't want to give a computer the info. I don't understand why they would apply to a company if they don't trust it to give their social. Besides that info is already on the dark web thanks to companies like Equifax that got hacked multiply times.

It's just annoying, and it's not just things like credit card info. A few weeks ago I bought a Lego set on Amazon. Now every website I visit on the internet has Lego advertisements, Facebook is advertising Legos on every other post, YouTube's recommending Lego related videos, and Lego is spamming my inbox. I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Netflix started recommending all the Lego movies. Heck, I'm still getting occasional ads for a set of pans I googled 4 years ago just to check the price online buying them in a store.

The last thing I want are the games I play accessing info stored on my computer to support and enable that sort of garbage. It really shouldn't even be legal.

Welcome to 2019 where you are a product to be sold for advertising purposes. I experienced a case of me watching The Americans on Amazon (wives account) on my computer. My Facebook account (which was not linked to my computer) had an ad for gutters (I had been doing research because I needed new gutters) in Russian. So 2 +2 = 4 means Facebook on my phone heard my computer speaking Russian (or Amazon told Facebook that I watched a show that has Russian in it sometimes) and thought it would give me ads in that language.

The only way to fight this is by voting for politics that will make laws to fix this, or not use the internet.

[The Renderer]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

eh... just because they and many other companies don't do certain things doesn't mean they aren't allowed to after you agree.

doubt there is much difference in how a ToS words e..g. storing your account name so it actually works and scanning your computer for account names to autofill that field.

I don't care what you "doubt", there is a big difference.

It's funny how now that companies are forced to word their ToS in such a way that everyone can understand it (thanks to the European GDPR) and have to tell what exactly they do with the data they have, people for the first time actually read what they have been signing on for years and start to freak out.