Martian Express known issues, limitations and patch

[lukeh_ro]

Hi,
First of all thanks a lot for the interest in Martian Express and I can tell you I read all the related posts and even choose to reply where I can give some help quickly.
As you may know there's already a patch mod available https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2801556344
That's the best way to give you the quickest solution.
There's also a mod that enables trains in old saves, a mod is needed because that's the way the game works on this aspect. Both also available on paradoxplaza.

Why trains of Mars? Because it was the biggest feature request around and the way it happened was probably the only way for such feature to become available. I could have never make something like this as a mod.

Trains can't go on ramps.
I would have liked to, at last to some degree, but there would have been a risk of not being able to do it for various reasons and dismiss the whole initiative if such thing would have been mandatory. Imho we could discuss about what's realistic but there's also gameplay considerations, a map with multiple terraces is supposed to be a harder difficulty and a challenge and having trains simply link those elevation levels would have eliminate all this aspect.
Tunnels? I can promise you that I will make a mod for that if noone else does it. I also had in mind modding when I wrote a code and remote job finding and other stuff could be reused for example to add a rover that would transport workers, and go on ramps.

Trains teleport from one side of the track to the other on stations
I'm not an expert but definitely animating something would have been very very hard and even we would have need to make stations bigger in order to allow trains to "properly" do that. The first intend was to make stations covered to avoid them appearing like that but than we looked at the two options and considered they look cooler this way and choose to go for it considering that's something you see pretty often on games and even other stuff is "teleported" in SM.

Colonists not switching trains to reach their destination
As with the passages in the base game, a lot of problems may appear if they could use multiple ones, is simply the scale of the game both in terms of space and time. As there are mods that give you longer passages and even make them use multiple ones (I made one that you can still find in my Base Additions mod) you could have noticed those issues. I do intend, or others could try, to make a mod for this which I consider ok but wouldn't have been ok in the CCP itself for those issue to surface or to try to change the whole workplaces balance of the game in order to support this.

Colonists walking to death instead of using trains
The only known, "valid", reason from them to do that is when they need return from work and the station near the workplace is full. It may not look full from the station infopanel because colonists already on route to the station are also considered but the UI shows just the ones arrived there. The patch mod already increases the number for colonists that can wait at a station which should be enough for a mining outpost but definitely not if you want to send by colonists from a few domes to work in a dome full with workshops. I'm currently looking for a better solution and hope to have one soon. Note that those "walking" colonists should look for alternative train routes and they should reach for a station in their walking range, meaning before they have problems, even if that's not in the range of their workplace so if you have other routes around they could still walk more but not to their death.

Balanced mode for resource transportation and station clogging
In the patch mod there's a better solution for both those. Description on how it works is available there. The possibilities are many and the first intend is to give a strong solution with default settings having in mind the situation in which the resources are actually needed and used on the other side. If you simply just want the resources to be send somewhere you should become creative and the controls available should help with that. Imo and the intend was: while the stations themselves work pretty well as a storage when you made them with a clear purpose (ie. to create a mining outpost) you should see them as a transportation buffer not a replacement for storages in a area.

What to do if I have a problem?
Please try to send me the logs, you can reach me here or better on discord to make sure I don't miss your message. If you are not using a lot of mods, and you want to, you could send me your save game and I will check it out.
Please keep this thread clean, focused on things I can control and regarding the ramps discussion that I said is the best answer I can give you.

[kaki_gamet]

In regard to missing animation, you can paint of a different color the second beam section, where the rear car stops when train enters the station.

Wait for anyone to leave then rotate that beam section together with the rear car of 90 degrees so that the rear car is standing above the beam. Once there rotate the rear car of 180 degrees, rotate the beam 90 degrees more, slowly and autonomously move the rear car in its parking position while the front car backs next to the turning beam section.

Rinse and repeat for it and you will end with both cars and beam in their correct position.

Problem, the whole animation may be too lengthy : P

[Sticky Wicket]

With all due respect I think basing the tracks on dome passages was a mistake, since they were always a bit of a kludgy add-on, and anyone who has played this game enough knows they are best avoided in fact. I think the same goes with this train DLC, unfortunately in it's present state I fear it's never going to be the really useful feature that it could be.

If the tracks were built in sections like pipes and electric conduits then slight elevation changes could be more manageable, and overall in-game building and maintenance problems could be addressed easier (and avoidance of colonist deaths).

If game balancing is an issue then large train elevations climbing ramps specifficly could be an end-game tech.

Adding through train-system could at least be done surely? There's no reason why a train can't stop at a mid-station and drop-off/pick up and continue on to another one?

Trains on Mars, as you say was the biggest feature request; but not like this, with so many limitations and idiosyncracies.

[BrotherAdso]

Thanks, Lukeh! I'm enjoying the train add-on. It is the best that could be done without an overhaul of the deeper fundamentals of the game. That does mean it has limitations, but even working within those limitations it is exciting to be able to centralize living domes a bit and allow colonists to travel to work, and it is nice have a long distance freight option besides shuttles. Not having to fuel those shuttles cuts down early water use nicely. The DLC gives fun opportunities - for example, I built a nice remote farming hub with some fungus farms and a drone hub next to a remote water deposit - very atmospheric and precisely the kind of cool moment this game was made for. It also meant the far distant water deposit went from being a pain in the ass to trek out and repair each dust storm to a miniature colony space, with its own drone hub and small store of resources for repair at the train station. Oh, and the DLC buildings are gorgeous! Love the apartments in particular.

I was happy to pay to support this work - the price point was about correct, and it brought me back to the game for the first time in more than a year.

If I have a request, it is to see if you can get whoever now owns the base game to put you and Silva on payroll for a year or something. To really change the game experience in a fundamental and positive way, the dome handling and kludge that is shared between trains and passages needs to be solved, and to do that you all will need time and information to get deep into the game, I imagine.

A much more minor request is skins for buildings that get heavily repeated in large colonies. I play as the USA fairly often, for example, and the Mega Mall feels repetitive because it is large and distinctive but you have to use a large-ish number of them. The same is true of China's Tai Chi garden. I'd gladly pay a few bucks for a big skin pack for those sorts of buildings.

Thanks for working hard on this pack! I'm enjoying it for what it is rather than focusing on what it is not (and couldn't easily be).

[lukeh_ro]

@BrotherAdso
Thank you and I wished I could do more in my mods regarding buildings too, yet I don't do 3d modeling myself.

@Sticky Wiked
Is not the code for the passages cutting out the possibility to build tracks on ramps and I'm aware of the problems the passages bring to the game but till now I don't think anyone mentioned their problem being not going on ramps. Yes it was the starting point for track building but could have been enhanced if we were confident we could do that. That was a decision we needed to take early and part of the considerations if we should proceed with the whole CCP. Honestly, I understand people would have liked those and I'm answering cause you touch a few other points too in your post, as I said I read all other posts regarding ramps.
The problem passages have were were expected to affect trains, we could not change the whole game balance to make it better suited for trains. So it has to be either way it ended with some intentional drawbacks to counter the advantages or make the trains a tool that would dumb down the difficulty of the game. Could have been better, that's always so.
Colonists deaths you mentioned... I'm usually very attached in my games to the minions but I played a game with trains on what would I call the lower end of mid difficulty and yes, a few died because of train disasters but not to put the mission in jeopardy by any means. Should you expect bigger problems on higher difficulty and come better prepared to handle those? In my opinion, yes.
Building tracks in one piece... I did had a prototype of the other way around but seeing both I decided is easier this way actually for the user (and wouldn't have changed things about ramps per se). Yes, you may have to put the game on pause and lay out the track but then your drones are good to start working on it from your main base, for pipes and cables you need them working all the length (and I can assure you it would have been even more problematic in the underground below). Could something in between have been better, maybe...
Adding mid stations... some medium stations for the trains to pass through with two connection points you mean? I agree could have been nice but still would have given just the illusion of a "network" and bring the question why they can continue traveling in a medium station but not in a large one. As I said, look forward for what modding can build upon this but we had to decide from start the scope of the CCP/DLC.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by lukeh_ro:

@Sticky Wiked
Is not the code for the passages cutting out the possibility to build tracks on ramps and I'm aware of the problems the passages bring to the game but till now I don't think anyone mentioned their problem being not going on ramps. Yes it was the starting point for track building but could have been enhanced if we were confident we could do that. That was a decision we needed to take early and part of the considerations if we should proceed with the whole CCP. Honestly, I understand people would have liked those and I'm answering cause you touch a few other points too in your post, as I said I read all other posts regarding ramps.
The problem passages have were were expected to affect trains, we could not change the whole game balance to make it better suited for trains. So it has to be either way it ended with some intentional drawbacks to counter the advantages or make the trains a tool that would dumb down the difficulty of the game. Could have been better, that's always so.
Colonists deaths you mentioned... I'm usually very attached in my games to the minions but I played a game with trains on what would I call the lower end of mid difficulty and yes, a few died because of train disasters but not to put the mission in jeopardy by any means. Should you expect bigger problems on higher difficulty and come better prepared to handle those? In my opinion, yes.
Building tracks in one piece... I did had a prototype of the other way around but seeing both I decided is easier this way actually for the user (and wouldn't have changed things about ramps per se). Yes, you may have to put the game on pause and lay out the track but then your drones are good to start working on it from your main base, for pipes and cables you need them working all the length (and I can assure you it would have been even more problematic in the underground below). Could something in between have been better, maybe...
Adding mid stations... some medium stations for the trains to pass through with two connection points you mean? I agree could have been nice but still would have given just the illusion of a "network" and bring the question why they can continue traveling in a medium station but not in a large one. As I said, look forward for what modding can build upon this but we had to decide from start the scope of the CCP/DLC.

Sticky WickeT actually...originally a British phrase that comes from Cricket :P

Thanks for the response.

Through trains meaning the way they function in RL. Along a major route between A ~ Z you can have as many station stops in between as you want where people and cargo can be picked up and/or dropped off.

If this current way is the only way that is going to represent trains in SM then I am very disappointed. The potential of this could have really been something special, and I personally was really looking forward to it. If this were a free update then fair enough but I just don't think the limited way it works is worthy of a paid DLC.

Half an idea is kind of worse than none at all.

As BrotherAdso says to get some financial backing to develop the ideas would be something I would want to support, even on a limited income.

[Ericus1]

I have to agree. As a free mod, the limitations faced by the choice of implementation would have been completely understandable and reasonable.

As a PAID piece of DLC, costing ~25% of the base game for this single feature, it's simply not good enough. Do I feel like this feature - as is - adds anywhere near a quarter of the content or value of the original game? No, no I do not.

I realize you probably had no control over the price, and instead this is a serious issue with Paradox's increasingly user-hostile DLC policies.

[Arthie]

I think just because you have to come here to explain, justify and be transparent, shows how unfortunate - to say the least - Paradox has been with their creative and management strategies. It's inconceivable that I need to rely on mods to play something I paid for. I appreciate your work, your effort and I hope that everything works out. Thanks for being patient with us.

[HurtfulPlayer97]

Nobody forced anyone to buy this DLC. And like passages, it is totally optional. It is not required to play the game.

[neutronstar]

Thanks for all of this information!

So far, it has been quite interesting seeing how the trains can affect your colony layout. Right now, I'm seeing if I can support a spread-out colony without using shuttles, just trains. I am also quite grateful to hear that there are plans to get trains to use tunnels.

Most of the trouble I had early on was figuring out just how to get the transport system to just work, and, since it's early days, there isn't much supplementary information. It took several iterations to figure out which resources needed to be "X"ed, and which way to set up the arrows/balance on each end to get resources flowing they way I wanted. A brief guide of some sort explaining how these settings work together would be helpful, I would think.

For instance, I'm not clear on how the Special Rule "Restricted Foot Walk" actually works in the game. Could you give a brief description?

[lukeh_ro]

"Restricted Foot Walk" reduces the distance colonists can walk before having problems (ie. suffocate) if one wants a bigger challenge.
Main thing you should have in mind regarding resource transport configuration I think it's that the controls on the right refer to drones and shuttles and the ones on the left to trains and they are independent...trains can still bring a resource if "X"ed for drones.

[kat.twotrees]

Maybe I didn't RTFM, but I did finally solve the problem of a remote rare metal extractor losing workers. I only had one station going there. Once I put a second station, it works great. I'm guessing one coming, one going? Anyway, all three shifts stay full.

[HurtfulPlayer97]

Originally posted by kat.twotrees:

Maybe I didn't RTFM, but I did finally solve the problem of a remote rare metal extractor losing workers. I only had one station going there. Once I put a second station, it works great. I'm guessing one coming, one going? Anyway, all three shifts stay full.

You mean you didn't have a station at the extractor? I am surprised people went there at all.