A challenge that destroys the fun, why?

[Don Cool]

Okay, "don´t do them", you might say. As you all know we gamers tend to be a bit compulsive when it comes to challenges and do them regardless of the fun factor.

Having 200 colonists before Sol 100 ... never done this but I am slower than that usually due to map difficulty, so it seems hard but within the games scope. The one challenge I can understand but wouldn´t do, especially knowing about the breeding problem that happens later on.

Selling 100 rare metals? Easy peasy, no challenge at all, this is practically needed in all runs to survive, income is needed at some point.

Having 40 science projects done by Sol 100, this is a game destroyer. It practically forces you to research every low tier project leaving no room for planning, want something researched far up the science tree? Sorry to break it to you, no can do, you need those 40 projects done first to relax. Much easier if you are playing Europe on this one and get the right techs straight away, but maps differ and growth inclucing the number of scientists is by far a guarantee.


There is no real balance between the 3 challenges I have been presented with, one is "okay´ish", one is too easy and the last just ruins the fun.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

I am happy with the result. I alter some rules and it works for me. Try not to use more then one passanger rocket with a max of 12 people (one time, win or die with them). Don't use any water pump. Don't use any wind turbine. And last use as mission sponsor "Paradox Interactive" and as profile "Futurist". There you have a nice start.

Excuse me for saying so but you basically just agreed with me by stating you are not happy with the basic rules, i.e. the basic game.

I think he is saying the game is decent if you put on some self imposed rules. Which goes for many games these days because developers keep dumbing games down. Pay to win games are successful for a reason which says a lot about gamers these days.

Which I have to agree with that there is many things in the game that make it too easy. Especially some of the breakthroughs. I would REALLY love to be able to toggle some of them off because they are too overpowered, like construction nanites, superior wiring and pipes.

The game really needs a survival mode honestly. Much like Falllout 4 put out later after release.

[Raven😂1407]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

I am happy with the result. I alter some rules and it works for me. Try not to use more then one passanger rocket with a max of 12 people (one time, win or die with them). Don't use any water pump. Don't use any wind turbine. And last use as mission sponsor "Paradox Interactive" and as profile "Futurist". There you have a nice start.

Excuse me for saying so but you basically just agreed with me by stating you are not happy with the basic rules, i.e. the basic game.

I think what I meant is, you got the tools, but not the rules. And the guys who are claiming the game misses this and that, might be right in the "physical" way, but they lack on mental options. Please don't get this as an offence, as this is "normal". Not everyone can be happy with building blocks. Some prefer to play with small cars, the others have the imagination to play with building blocks and imagine everything.
And here is the point, if you have to use small cars, these are just small cars, the building blocks with the right amount of imagination can be ships or planes, too.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Excuse me for saying so but you basically just agreed with me by stating you are not happy with the basic rules, i.e. the basic game.

I think what I meant is, you got the tools, but not the rules. And the guys who are claiming the game misses this and that, might be right in the "physical" way, but they lack on mental options.

Self restraint. It is liek you know researching or using that breakthrough is going to make the game easy and boring as ♥♥♥♥. It is up to you whether or not to actually use it. Which was why I suggested a toggle option to remove them just to avoid the temptation.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Excuse me for saying so but you basically just agreed with me by stating you are not happy with the basic rules, i.e. the basic game.

I think he is saying the game is decent if you put on some self imposed rules. Which goes for many games these days because developers keep dumbing games down.

That's nothing short of an "admission of guilt" of the whole point I'm trying to make here.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I think he is saying the game is decent if you put on some self imposed rules. Which goes for many games these days because developers keep dumbing games down.

That's nothing short of an "admission of guilt" of the whole point I'm trying to make here.

The problem is the people wanting a hard game is an extreme minority these days. That goes for gaming in general.

Take the MMOs as an example. World of Warcraft a very small percentage actually do the mythic content. Most are content with normal or even heroic.

What he is saying in order to make the best of the game you have to impose rules yourself. This is because developers did not bother to take that time to cater to that 10% or so that actually want that pain in the balls hard game.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

That's a complete myth to think people who actually want a real game are the minority. What really happen is that idiots who know nothing about anything and whiners in general are way more vocal even tho they are even way more a minority and thus manage to get their way across. There been plenty of games in the end of the last year in which people were requesting harder games left and right (Slay the Spire, They are Billions just to name two out of my head).

And by the look of it, more and more people join that "hardcore" club. Because real games which are really a challenge get rarer and rarer, which mean when a dev who actually know what they are doing without allowing themselves to get bullied get praised for it (CupHead anyone?).

[Raven😂1407]

Hm, I think the "hardcore" gamers already have their games, like COH and it's parts. And just because a game has the theme survival in it, does not mean you have to have a hard time in the game. A Robinson on his Isle had to manage things like grow food get animals to use. Some events strove his Isle like the arrive of Friday. But they are not the main story. They are part of it.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

You need to keep in mind this is a strategy game. It's more a base building game but that's just a subgenre of a strategy game. So you need to keep in mind what audience it is target for.

Many strategy gamers are old by now because that's a genre which received very poor attention in the last decade. Coupled with that dumbing down of games which I agree is what is hapening then it is not hard at all to understand why so many people thumb down this game. If you take someone who used to play Civ II or Civ III at max or near max level and you ask him to talk about this game he'll tell you right away it is a pure joke and you'd need to compare said games at easiest level to even be close. Heck, even real base builders like Zeus or those Rome games would either laugh or downright facepalm when compared to SM. And I'm comparing games made two to three decades ago, mind you!

[Mansen]

Originally posted by Don:

Having 40 science projects done by Sol 100, this is a game destroyer.

I have never been able to fail this - Sounds like you're not putting anywhere near enough focus into science production, either on the colony, or through outsourcing. 2 billion will get you 10.000 research easy. That's 3 rocketloads of rare metal.

[Azunai]

yeah i don't think it's all that hard to achieve. if you go for the cheapest techs, the bare minimum of 40 techs would be the first 8 of each of the 5 branches. that's about 15K RP per branch or 75K RP combined. in other words, you only have to maintain an average of ~750 RP per day to make it in time. the easier sponsors give you 300-400 baseline tech for free and there's another +100 from the explorer rover and +100 added to the baseline income from one of the early techs.

1-2 labs running 2 or 3 shifts of 3 scienctist each will churn out enough extra research to easily break the required tech. you can also get a lot of free research points from anomalies (direct one time RP income, permanent % tech cost discounts).

if you also want to grab some higher level techs, build some more labs / science institutes or make more money to buy more outsourcing.

really not that hard to pull off.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Mansen:

Originally posted by Don:

Having 40 science projects done by Sol 100, this is a game destroyer.

I have never been able to fail this - Sounds like you're not putting anywhere near enough focus into science production, either on the colony, or through outsourcing. 2 billion will get you 10.000 research easy. That's 3 rocketloads of rare metal.

He thinks that because Church starts with 0 research points per sol it makes a difference.

[Don Cool]

Originally posted by Mansen:

Originally posted by Don:

Having 40 science projects done by Sol 100, this is a game destroyer.

I have never been able to fail this - Sounds like you're not putting anywhere near enough focus into science production, either on the colony, or through outsourcing. 2 billion will get you 10.000 research easy. That's 3 rocketloads of rare metal.

Start with the Church of New Ark, only 1 rocket and take a site which is ice covered. You will spend your first 20 sols getting ready for your dome without research, that includes natural disasters which will hit your base. By the time you get your first dome you are cash strained, only one lab in the dome providing about 130 research which will be used on the two techs helping your research, that is if you have unlocked them.

Watch the youtube video on 535 difficulty (search), I think he managed 14 techs by sol 60. My point was that the achievement of selling 100 rare metals is very easy, the others entirely depend on the difficulty of your chosen map and profession (and he has two rockets).

[Mansen]

At that point you're asking for a challenge.

[Azunai]

when i played my church game, i didn't get the mission to research 40 techs. the goal was to get 80 martianborn by sol 100. which is kinda their thing (higher birth rate).

i picked an easy map with low distasters for them. by sol 20 i had my first dome with a farm and some sols later i also built 2 labs and was producing about 750 RP. at that point the research mission would actually seem easier than getting 80 mars borns (or 200 if you actually want the steam achievement and not just the in game evaluation goal)

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Mansen:

At that point you're asking for a challenge.

See? I told you he was complaining about the Church of Ark acheivement.

I have the achievement. Does he want to listen? Nope. He would rather watch someone fail it on Youtube.

He seems to be hung up on the whole 0 research thing. Do some math. 100 Sols in that is only a 10,000 to 20,0000 difference. That is one or two techs difference at 100 sols for techs in the 9-10th range.

This si where you make up that difference with outsourcing and aim for autominous sensors and place about 12 on the map. Go for the quick anaomaly grab. Aim for deep scan, and repeat.

Then combine that with selling rare metals to buy outsourcing.