Tunnels feel way too op?

[Valar Morghulis]

I only watched Quill18s LP but he builds tunnels all over the place. Yeah I know they are not that cheap but they can connect to an huge distant point, which would cost way more maintenance if you build pipes and cables.

And has also less risk of beeing hit by a meteor, cause it's underground.

Well I personally wont use them to exploit my game. But I would like to hear some other opinions.

[donkeyrider]

I think using them in that matter comes down to what type of player you are

[Revolver camp]

A way I suggest they can "fix" this is by having longer tunnels cost more resorces to make & maintain

[Name Lips]

They don't actually simulate the "underground" portion of the tunnel, which makes them in effect a point-to-point teleporter. Clearly it is much faster and easier to do them this way, but if they actually simulated the underground portion, it would balance things out. They would cost more to make the longer they were, and take actual time for rovers to travel through. Also, they don't break down -- pipes and cables can break down and end up costing resources for upkeep. Tunnels do not, which means their cost over time is superior.

[Beric01]

Originally posted by Name Lips:

They don't actually simulate the "underground" portion of the tunnel, which makes them in effect a point-to-point teleporter. Clearly it is much faster and easier to do them this way, but if they actually simulated the underground portion, it would balance things out. They would cost more to make the longer they were, and take actual time for rovers to travel through. Also, they don't break down -- pipes and cables can break down and end up costing resources for upkeep. Tunnels do not, which means their cost over time is superior.

I really wonder if a mod could calculate tunnel transit time based on distance, or if it is hardcoded. The current implementation does seem a bit broken. I, for one, will only be using them to connect different elevations.

[Raven😂1407]

It looks like some people have a lack of imagination here.
First, it's a game, where the rools are defined through the guys who made the game.
Second, nobody needs to exploit anything.
Third, don't try altering rules when not even played the game.
Fourth, try to enjoy things how they are made. Acceptance this days seems to be dying more and more.
If you would develop chess today, you would be told the queen looks to old and the king won't match her...

[Valar Morghulis]

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

It looks like some people have a lack of imagination here.
First, it's a game, where the rools are defined through the guys who made the game.
Second, nobody needs to exploit anything.
Third, don't try altering rules when not even played the game.
Fourth, try to enjoy things how they are made. Acceptance this days seems to be dying more and more.
If you would develop chess today, you would be told the queen looks to old and the king won't match her...

It looks like you can not read the title post. Try again.

[Raven😂1407]

Originally posted by Valar Morghulis:

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

It looks like some people have a lack of imagination here.
First, it's a game, where the rools are defined through the guys who made the game.
Second, nobody needs to exploit anything.
Third, don't try altering rules when not even played the game.
Fourth, try to enjoy things how they are made. Acceptance this days seems to be dying more and more.
If you would develop chess today, you would be told the queen looks to old and the king won't match her...

It looks like you can not read the title post. Try again.

Sure I did :)
What I meant and wrote, just play the game and than say it is op

[European Onion]

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

It looks like some people have a lack of imagination here.
First, it's a game, where the rools are defined through the guys who made the game.
Second, nobody needs to exploit anything.
Third, don't try altering rules when not even played the game.
Fourth, try to enjoy things how they are made. Acceptance this days seems to be dying more and more.
If you would develop chess today, you would be told the queen looks to old and the king won't match her...

1) So there is no chance any of their tools have unintended(OP) usage that they would want to adress? With such mentality no game would ever need rebalance.
2) Yeah, you aren't forcedto exploit anything. But if you're tryhard It's very tempting and generally, solid games have no easy exploits like this to improve immersion.
3) He's complaining about essential system/mechanic. I don't see how actual gameplay aspect could change that. Streams are enough in this case imho.
4) Sure, everyone should just shut up and not let developers/other players what they think about the game. That'll sure be healthy:)

[Jurij I. Gorkij]

I must disagree... I saw Keralis building tunnels to reach mining outpost (about half map from his base) - he needed 3 of them and all those tunnels did is hide pipes and cables from surface. Yeah, he can travel with vehicle almost instantly there, but he needs to do it manually each time.

Theres later tech (or breaktrough) which even makes cable imunne to breakdowns, so only asteroids are threat.

[Valar Morghulis]

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

Originally posted by Valar Morghulis:

It looks like you can not read the title post. Try again.

Sure I did :)
What I meant and wrote, just play the game and than say it is op

No you did obviously not lol.

Where did I say that they are op?
I said they feel like they could be op.

Where did I say that you are forced to exploit tunnels.
I only said "I" wont exploit them.

Where did I say that I want the rules how tunnels work changed?
Right, I didnt say that wtf.

Where did I say that I'm not going to enjoy the game?
I never did that.

I didnt even demand balancing, all I wanted are opinions how other people feel about tunnels. So you are either uncapable of understanding english, or trolling. Or both.

[Raven😂1407]

Originally posted by Bořivoj:

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

It looks like some people have a lack of imagination here.
First, it's a game, where the rools are defined through the guys who made the game.
Second, nobody needs to exploit anything.
Third, don't try altering rules when not even played the game.
Fourth, try to enjoy things how they are made. Acceptance this days seems to be dying more and more.
If you would develop chess today, you would be told the queen looks to old and the king won't match her...

1) So there is no chance any of their tools have unintended(OP) usage that they would want to adress? With such mentality no game would ever need rebalance.
2) Yeah, you aren't forcedto exploit anything. But if you're tryhard It's very tempting and generally, solid games have no easy exploits like this to improve immersion.
3) He's complaining about essential system/mechanic. I don't see how actual gameplay aspect could change that. Streams are enough in this case imho.
4) Sure, everyone should just shut up and not let developers/other players what they think about the game. That'll sure be healthy:)

Hi Bořivoj, I am with you to talk about things before a game is released is ok and might change something in the process of development.
But in this case I wouldn't talk about something is op, when/if not is clear, what is the use of it. The tunnels can't be op, because they have one main function. They should delay the investigation of not reachable terain at the beginning. In other games they use doors, which you only can open, if you got the key from a to be found and killed boss for example.

To continue in this example:
Would you whant to pay the rest of the game for a door you opened?
Would you want it to take a long time to go through the door?

And don't get me wrong a second time, sure not to wait for the transit through a tunnel is a break of immersion. And sure a tunnel should cost some upkeep. But not if the "leveldesign" has no need for it. A good way to handel things like this might be to make it optional, so you can choose if you want to start a game with tunnels you have to wait for transit and pay for upkeep.

[Raven😂1407]

Originally posted by Valar Morghulis:

Originally posted by Raven1407 DE/GER:

Sure I did :)
What I meant and wrote, just play the game and than say it is op

... So you are either uncapable of understanding english, or trolling. Or both.

Let me say it in that way. I try to read and understand, but that does not mean I understand. And no I am not trolling.
I only though, how to discuss about your feeling ("Tunnels feel way to op"). It is so personal. So I focused more on the point op. And how can you feel op-ness, when the game is not even played. It might be taste, but feeling?

[Zourin]

There's no point to commit to the logistical nightmare of running tunnels to places for any reason other than to cross impassable terrain.

All you really need is a little wire and some small solar panels, maybe a battery, and you can charge your rovers at either end, but that's about the end of it.

Everyone I've seen commits to massive supergrid networks, costing them massive amounts of resources in repairs, and offset the fault losses by overbuilding even more power buildings that require even more maintanance costs and increases the size of the grid, resulting in even more faults. it's a horrid trap to fall into.

[Jurij I. Gorkij]

Originally posted by Zourin:

There's no point to commit to the logistical nightmare of running tunnels to places for any reason other than to cross impassable terrain.

All you really need is a little wire and some small solar panels, maybe a battery, and you can charge your rovers at either end, but that's about the end of it.

Everyone I've seen commits to massive supergrid networks, costing them massive amounts of resources in repairs, and offset the fault losses by overbuilding even more power buildings that require even more maintanance costs and increases the size of the grid, resulting in even more faults. it's a horrid trap to fall into.

That's sonething with I can agree.

[Knoxx212]

I'm fine with the tunnels. A delay would seem proper but little to no maintenance seem fine for the initial cost. Where I live they have moved most utility lines underground to avoid maintenance costs so why not on Mars?