Renegade Management

[Stretchytall]

First Question:
Once a colonist turns renegade, is it possible for them to turn good again if their morale goes up? Whenever I rollover the morale indicator on a renegade, it only says they're renegade rather than what morale they have.

Second Question:
I have security stations that are partially staffed, and I've had some thefts. Did the thefts occur because I haven't fully staffed the security stations? Do I have to staff the night shift in the security stations? Right now no one anywhere works night shift.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Stretchytall:

First Question:
Once a colonist turns renegade, is it possible for them to turn good again if their morale goes up?

Nope.

Originally posted by Stretchytall:

Whenever I rollover the morale indicator on a renegade, it only says they're renegade rather than what morale they have.

I know this is irritating because it erases the morale change log so you can see why a colonist went renegade.

Originally posted by Stretchytall:

Second Question:
I have security stations that are partially staffed, and I've had some thefts. Did the thefts occur because I haven't fully staffed the security stations? Do I have to staff the night shift in the security stations? Right now no one anywhere works night shift.

Security stations reduce the chance and severity. If your renegades get out of hand they can start blowing buildings up in a dome.

No shift in a building pretty much means that building is turned off.

[allfold]

This is a mechanic in the game that could provide more info. Yeah, I certainly find out when the renegades are successful but I'd like to see a message when they are foiled.

It's expensive in manpower to run Security Stations, I wonder if it's even worth it. With renegades on they still seem to be often successful with two fully staffed stations. Cripes, how many do you need, are they all master criminals?

[Bored Peon]

If you are using Rebel Yell rule then you are asking for renegades. There is no way to prevent renegades with that rule on because it has a chance to tale the lowest morale person in the dome and makes them a renegade until your dome has 30% renegades in the population.

So if you are moving renegades to another dome to separate them you are just creating them much faster.

The more renegades in a dome increases the damage they do. I heard you can lose control of the dome entirely if the population of renegades gets high enough in a dome.

[allfold]

Yeah, I was experimenting with Rebel Yell and moving all renegades to a dome with multiple Security Stations. No fun, I couldn't tell what effect my stations were having with the limited info given. Without RY they aren't a problem. Seems like a wasted mechanic, I don't use RY anymore.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by allfold:

Yeah, I was experimenting with Rebel Yell and moving all renegades to a dome with multiple Security Stations. No fun, I couldn't tell what effect my stations were having with the limited info given. Without RY they aren't a problem. Seems like a wasted mechanic, I don't use RY anymore.

Yeah I played with Rebel Yell frequently because I thought it only increased the chance of having a renegade. Blake Walsh explained and showed the code that it adds a renegade no matter how high your morale is. It was something like check if population of renegades in the dome is equal to population divided by 3 then add flaw renegade.

With small numbers in a dome they just steal stuff, once you have about a dozen or more without a security station they start blowing buildings up.

Since there is no way to prevent renegades while using Rebel yell or a way to cure Renegade then you are basically saying "make 30% of my population useless." Then on top of that they end up filling job slots with 0 performance people (because you can not filter them out) and cause morale drops to create actual renegades.

In my opinion Rebel Yell should have been something like if the colonists drop below 40 morale (instead of the normal 30 morale?) It also should have provided something to remove renegade status like if you got morale to 60 or jailed them for X sols.

[Stretchytall]

This explains so much! I’ve been playing the India challenge game where you try to get up to 2000 population. I completely forgot that rebel yell is part of the scenario. I too thought it only increases the odds of renegades. I think he automatic renegade mechanic should be changed to a Probability mechanic. Or maybe include both mechanics as separate options. Thanks for the info!

[electrocatalysis]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

If you are using Rebel Yell rule then you are asking for renegades. There is no way to prevent renegades with that rule on because it has a chance to tale the lowest morale person in the dome and makes them a renegade until your dome has 30% renegades in the population.

So if you are moving renegades to another dome to separate them you are just creating them much faster.

The more renegades in a dome increases the damage they do. I heard you can lose control of the dome entirely if the population of renegades gets high enough in a dome.

30%??? Dammit, are you serious? In my colony there are 47 officers trying to deal with 40 renegades with all population 300. It's almost 30% of people who do nothing but counter each other. You mean that they will be 70% some day (sol)? Or kind of everything is going to that (if births stop)?

Is the chance to get renegade always the same? Or it depends how far to 30% the number of renegades in a dome is? Like the closer the number to 30% the less chance to get new one.

[Ericus1]

I believe it's 20%, not 30%. And it's a fixed rate of one colonist a Sol, no matter the population of the dome.

So while in a small mining dome with 30 colonists you'd pretty much always have 6* (math hard) you'd have to deal with, in a large dome of 240 people it'd take 48 Sols to actually reach max. At that rate, you'd be better off filtering the renegades out of the dome to a renegade only containment (or kill) dome and just factoring the attrition into birth rate.

Basically, rebel yell makes small domes harder to manage while being effectively useless against large domes that can simply breed replacements faster than they can generate.

Incidentally, this is one of those situations where passageways make sense, where you limit housing entirely to one dome and place work/service buildings in connected domes, because you generate fewer rebels overall each Sol and the attrition rate becomes less of a factor the higher the dome pop.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by electrocatalysis:

30%??? Dammit, are you serious? In my colony there are 47 officers trying to deal with 40 renegades with all population 300. It's almost 30% of people who do nothing but counter each other. You mean that they will be 70% some day (sol)? Or kind of everything is going to that (if births stop)?

No, need to find the formula that Rebel yell uses to create renegades.

The Rebel Yell formula does a simple check that if you have X amount of renegades in that dome then it will not create another. Renegades created by Rebel Yell rule are automatic, there is no way to avoid it by having enough comfort and morale (which is why i stopped using the rule, since renegades have no "cure".)

However that does not stop renegades form being created normally in that dome if you can not maintain morale above 40.

[electrocatalysis]

I've just thought... and decided that it makes no sense to put them all into a dedicated dome (in case you are not going to kill them). I have such dome and it's really painful. Also if we have some renegades cap it's better to keep them in domes where they appear. For example, in my dedicated dome I have 40 renegades and 47 officers who can't effectively deal with all the renegades (on the other hand I manage to have no crimes at all). I use renegades in service buildings like Grocer, Infirmary and in Security stations. But the thing is they are too many for buildings which don't require profession. And using them to secure themselves, for example, is just ineffective, because they have -40 for wrong specialisation. I think it's better to let them be, just have enough security stations in domes and everything will be ok. Of course, efficiency of every building will be reduced but, on the other hand, it's just a part of the challenge. Renegades affect badly your factories in early game, because you mostly use uneducated workers in factories and just need to get max output for every resource spent on the maintenance, but later you can afford to make things easier and let them work with normal workers in appropriate buildings. At least I'm going to try this. I think it will be much better to use them with -50 to efficiency than -90. Also they have morale anyway. You just don't see it. And technically you can have 100/120/140 renegade's efficiency with max morale and Enthusiast or/and Workaholic.

And I'm not going to stop using the rule cos I'm just going to finish the game on the highest difficulty. It's my 3rd game after 1st 10 sols game and then 2nd - 80 sols on max difficulty and realising that I won't do all the sponsor goals. I don't really want to play it more, because management is quite terrible. It's essential to use manual control on higher difficulties to distribute your colonists among your colony, but I don't like the filters, how they work. I'd like to have more flexible control. I'm going to finish the game and send a letter with some ideas to developers. If they do something to make easier the management, then I'll gladly buy some DLCs and play the game again. I just don't want to experience this hell again. :D
I'd like to make important decisions during the game and enjoy the process and result, not wasting most of the time on sending colonists here and there in 1000th time :D