Degica's Broken CAVE Ports

[Strid]

KetsuPachi fixed as of Nov. 18, 2016 so edited to track the remaining issues.

DoDonPachi Ressurection: Arrange A still completely broken [5 months]

Deathsmiles: MBL 1.1 still completely broken [12 months]

Mushihimesama: No broken modes, same functionality issues of all 3 ports. [16 months]

Still a myriad amount of the same issues that span all 3 Degica CAVE ports, the oldest of which is over a year old now. This pertains to replays, leaderboards, etc.

[James_Degica]

Greetings and apolgies no one from Degica has posted here sooner.
Thanks for being so patient and bringing these issues up.

DoDonPachi Ressurection: Arrange A still completely broken [5 months]

This we are still looking at, albeit at a much slower pace than I would like.
What we know so far is that Arrange A's slowdown is not the same as BLA's.
That is to say, BLA was a software implemenation which could be adjusted, but Arrange A does not share the same code. We had our QA team look at the Steam version alongside the Jpns Xbox 360 release on an Elite model, but they weren't able to find any significant differences. None of them are expert players, so that may be the reason.

Deathsmiles: MBL 1.1 still completely broken [12 months]

This is lack of slowdown when compared to the Xbox 360 version, correct?

Mushihimesama: same functionality issues of all 3 ports. [16 months]

Problems with Direct X controllers and replay desyncs, correct?
The former is due to the games only fully supporting X Input, this is by design, but I realise that many of you have non-compatible sticks. Ideally, we would like to support these, but it's not something we have a timeline for now.
Several smaller issues were fixed last year alongside a similar patch for Deathsmiles (friend/leaderboard crash and leaderboard-related framerate drop offs).
Unfortunately we still have an issue with viewing friend leaderboards for some players, I'm going to ask our QA partner to attempt to pinpoint what's causing it which will hopefully mean we can get it fixed.

Again, sorry for the lack of response.

[linux enjoyer]

leaderboards are messed up overall, especially arrange B (mushi too to a smaller extent)
it just seems to upload replays to random categories, as a result the entire arrange B front page aren't even arrange B scores

the top 1.5 replay is also on the BL leaderboard for whatever reason and almost none of the downloaded replays work

[Strid]

Originally posted by James_Degica:

This we are still looking at, albeit at a much slower pace than I would like.
What we know so far is that Arrange A's slowdown is not the same as BLA's.
That is to say, BLA was a software implemenation which could be adjusted, but Arrange A does not share the same code. We had our QA team look at the Steam version alongside the Jpns Xbox 360 release on an Elite model, but they weren't able to find any significant differences. None of them are expert players, so that may be the reason.

That there is no slowdown when you activate Hyper Mode is the issue, not the overall slowdown from bullet accumulation.

This is lack of slowdown when compared to the Xbox 360 version, correct?

Yes, it's not even close.

Problems with Direct X controllers and replay desyncs, correct?
The former is due to the games only fully supporting X Input, this is by design, but I realise that many of you have non-compatible sticks. Ideally, we would like to support these, but it's not something we have a timeline for now.
Several smaller issues were fixed last year alongside a similar patch for Deathsmiles (friend/leaderboard crash and leaderboard-related framerate drop offs).
Unfortunately we still have an issue with viewing friend leaderboards for some players, I'm going to ask our QA partner to attempt to pinpoint what's causing it which will hopefully mean we can get it fixed.

Controllers aren't an issue, really. The more support you have, the better, but if the end-user can't make almost any controller work on a PC these days, they aren't trying very hard.

I mean the same things that have continued ot be issues in releases after -- leaderboards, replays, etc.

[Ricky the "No Guard"]

Friendly reminder that Degica does not work on these ports, and that every single line of code is 100% the responsibility of the actual developer, in this case CAVE.

DFK Arrange A and DS MBL 1.1 aren't "broken", they're just missing slowdown. Not the same thing at all, and the idea is already incredibly counter-intuitive. There needs to be some actual clarification on how slowdown affects a given mode before you start throwing around words like "broken", especially when DFK's two arcade modes are more accurate than the 360 version (??????).

Missing slowdown can even be reasoned with, assuming it's never fixed. You already have to treat BL Arrange as a new game from the old, so you might as well do the same with Arrange A and MBL 1.1. The leaderboard and replay issues are the biggest things facing these ports right now.

A 55MB patch just went out, does anyone know what that is? It doesn't have anything to do with the Arrange OST, because I didn't buy that and it's not in the files. I actually can't even find what files were changed.

[linux enjoyer]

Originally posted by tenlinkedparts:

There needs to be some actual clarification on how slowdown affects a given mode before you start throwing around words like "broken", especially when DFK's two arcade modes are more accurate than the 360 version

can we stop this "more accurate" meme based on no proof whatsoever

BL is less accurate, you generate way more hits in the first part of stage 5 on the side lasers, I easily outplay the DVD superplay there with no effort whatsoever while using 1 less hyper

might be more cases like that in the rest of the game

[Ricky the "No Guard"]

Then maybe you and your friends shouldn't spread misinformation like that. Can you do that in the 360 version? Do you even have the 360 version?

[linux enjoyer]

the WR holder himself told me that
you know, the guy who demoed the game at wasshoi a month ago who did the DVD superplays

and I never said that it's more accurate lol

[Ricky the "No Guard"]

That doesn't answer the question of whether or not this is the behavior of the 360 version, because the superplays use the arcade versions.

[Strid]

Originally posted by tenlinkedparts:

Friendly reminder that Degica does not work on these ports, and that every single line of code is 100% the responsibility of the actual developer, in this case CAVE.

Nope. It's equally the fault of everyone involved, especially the people thinking it's OK to sell games with broken modes and continually releasing games with the same exact issues.

DFK Arrange A and DS MBL 1.1 aren't "broken", they're just missing slowdown.

When slowdown is an integral part of the game, and it's missing, that's broken. If it was just a matter of accuracy and it was marginally off, it wouldn't be worth the time to worry about.


Far be it from me to tell anyone how to live their life, but what kind of sense does it make to be making excuses on behalf of a company that thinks you're worth no more than a sloppy port?

[linux enjoyer]

Originally posted by tenlinkedparts:

That doesn't answer the question of whether or not this is the behavior of the 360 version

alright, I tested it just for you on both the 360 and steam versions

- you straight up get way less hits on 360 stage 5 first part - same as in the arcade verson

360 version - 4000 hits before midboss 1, 2,000,000 chain value
steam - 6500 hits before midboss 1, 2,700,000 chain value
hits basically go up at double rate on steam

- if you enter a stage with an active hyper, it depletes at half speed on steam - not sure which one is the "arcade" behavior

- 360 has considerably more slowdown when hypering basically everywhere, unstable slowdown on steam is way more stable on 360, at one point in st4 the slowdown is basically entirely missing and hypering there is 10x more dangerous - more slowdown is closer to arcade, I would really encourage anyone who wants to play DFKBL seriously to get the 360 version

Originally posted by tenlinkedparts:

because the superplays use the arcade versions

this is a huge load of ♥♥♥♥, your "superplayers" are normal people just like anyone else and they like to play the same games at home too

basically everyone uses the home versions at least for practice and especially DFK has some really good scores on both 360 and steam (with the A-Strong BL 360 record being way better than the arcade one by a huge amount)

[James_Degica]

Dodonpachi
If you open one mode's leaderboards, then cancel back to the main menu, switch modes and go back to the leaderboards the previous mode's data will be displayed for a few seconds until it updates. If you download a replay before it updates, the replay will be for the previous mode.
If this matches problems you're having with incorrect replays/scores, please check.

Arrange A
I've seen a few videos illustrating how/when the slow down occured in the Xbox 360 versions.
As I mentioned though, what we currently know is that the slowdown is not software implemented and further investigation suggests that different models of Xbox showed different amounts of slowdown, so the current conclusion is this is a hardware related issue.

Arrange B Leaderboards
Looking into this now.

Mushihime
Looking into the leaderboards: some scores on Arrange appear differently after they are downloaded as a replay.

Replays
We've been able to observe the replays going out of sync: did this ever happen in the Xbox 360 version? The way these function is to log player input and then replay it, so the most likely cause is dropped frames during recording causing replays to go out of sync.
The actual implementation appears to be issue free, so unfortunately there is little more we can do at this point.

Edit (5/22)
Deathsmiles
MBL 1.1
As mentioned here, from what we know, the slowdown _appears_ to be hardware induced, resulting in the stark differences between 360 and PC versions. Once again, we apologise for this, but we currently do not have a realistic solution to reproduce the slowdown.

[Misery]

Originally posted by James_Degica:

Replays
We've been able to observe the replays going out of sync: did this ever happen in the Xbox 360 version? The way these function is to log player input and then replay it, so the most likely cause is dropped frames during recording causing replays to go out of sync.
The actual implementation appears to be issue free, so unfortunately there is little more we can do at this point.

From my experience, yes, the replays could desync in the 360 version. I had that happen frequently enough that after a time I stopped bothering to save any. That though seemed to happen mostly in specific modes.... here, it's everywhere.

[DAVID]

still waiting for deathsmiles mbl 1.1 slows

[James_Degica]

Originally posted by Marius Titus:

still waiting for deathsmiles mbl 1.1 slows

Apologies, we updated the Deathsmiles thread As mentioned here, but I forgot to update you all here. I added it to my reply above.

[Snake]

I gotta say, it's reassuring to see you guys talk to the community. Even if these issues don't get resolved any time soon. The fact that they are being officialy acknowledged, and we are given realistic responses, makes a big difference in my opinion. Thanks!