How much should I play Shmups in order to be good?

[Vaxen]

Since shmups are one of the hardest game genre, the games are also very long to master. But how long does it take to master one game?

Asking because I've been playing shmups a lot, I still cant 1CC any CAVE game. And for that matter, I dont survive for long. I have only partially mastered the first boss in this game, I can usually only go as far as level 3 in Mushihimesama, I can only go as far as the level 2 boss in Raiden I and II, I can only go as far as level 3 in DonPachi, DoDonPachi and DoDonPachi II. And yet, I have been playing these games a lot.

What am I doing wrong? Any tips?

[Vaxen]

Originally posted by node357:

i've been playing shmups/shooters for most of my life, and i can tell you that sometimes, it just never happens. some people are incredibly gifted, a fraction of people who play games. there's a reason truly skill-based games tend to be niche even at their peak of popularity. only a handful of people can accomplish the impossible. coming from someone who's been trying to get good at them for decades and simply can't. hopefully you're one of the elites and someone like you will give you the info on how long you can expect to be practicing before you master your game.

it it doesn't happen, don't worry. you aren't alone, not by a long shot.

That's some very interesting stuff you've written here...

I did 1CC a few shmups, Mad Robot X, Witch Bot Meglilo and Shoot 1Up. Though I wish I can 1CC really tough games eventually. I started playing shmups seriously since 2015..?

[shoopy]

I can't 1cc a lot of the games that I play but that doesn't bother me because it's fun when I play. I only 1cc this game on novice and I don't clear the second loop even when I get in it.

However, I can tell you that it's more about not repeating your mistakes than it is about time.

[User]

Watch videos! It's a good idea to see what more experienced players do. Shmups are puzzle games in disguise, there's a certain route you have to follow, there's a certain way to dodge patterns safely. See what more advanced players are doing, try to understand why, and use those techniques yourself.

Another good advice is to use practice mode! It's there for a reason. Practice all those strategies you learned watching videos. Memorize a route that you know is safe and practice it, don't just go around moving aimlessly during stages, but rather follow a route that will ensure the least amount of danger. You can also practice boss patterns to learn what are the safest ways to dodge them.
I know some people don't use practice modes and don't use savestates in arcade games or don't use SpoilerAL for Touhou games and such. If you do this, you are severely restricting yourself. If you want to win, why are you preventing yourself from winning?

This is basic but you never know if it might be helpful to point out. Don't look at your ship! Not even its hitbox! If you're looking at your ship's hitbox you are severely limiting your vision. You should instinctively know where your ship's hitbox is, you'll learn this naturally as you play. Instead, you should be looking up, at the source of the bullets. If you look at your hitbox, you'll notice the bullets when it's too late to come up with a plan. But if you look up, at the enemies shooting the bullets, you'll notice them earlier and you'll see where they're moving, so you can plan ahead and go to a safe place.

If you need more help with something more specific, please tell me and I'll do my best to help.

[User]

Originally posted by node357:

i've been playing shmups/shooters for most of my life, and i can tell you that sometimes, it just never happens. some people are incredibly gifted, a fraction of people who play games. there's a reason truly skill-based games tend to be niche even at their peak of popularity. only a handful of people can accomplish the impossible. coming from someone who's been trying to get good at them for decades and simply can't. hopefully you're one of the elites and someone like you will give you the info on how long you can expect to be practicing before you master your game.

In my opinion, this is true, but not in the way you're saying.

Yes, there's a super small fraction of people who can get good at shmups. But that's not because they're gifted with superhuman reflexes or anything like that. It's because they don't give up. If you want to get good at shmups, you have to play them, you have to free yourself from self restricting rules, you have to seek help, and you have to persevere. Very few people are willing to go through so much effort for such outdated "casual" games. That's it.

Everyone can get good at shmups, assuming they don't have physical or mental limitations caused by illnesses or something like that. There is no "shmup gene" or anything like that. You just have to not give up and strive to improve yourself, which is something a very small fraction of people are willing to do.

[sockesocke]

theres only one way to find out: play more. tha being said imo dodonpachi resurrection is one of the easier shmups. so far i havent 1cc' d many shmups but i managed to 1cc guwange and deathsmiles which are considered some of the harder shmups. i guess you just have to find a shmup that fits your playstyle and taste.

[User]

Originally posted by sockesocke:

theres only one way to find out: play more. tha being said imo dodonpachi resurrection is one of the easier shmups. so far i havent 1cc' d many shmups but i managed to 1cc guwange and deathsmiles which are considered some of the harder shmups. i guess you just have to find a shmup that fits your playstyle and taste.

I would say Deathsmiles is probably CAVE's easiest. Haven't played Guwange so I don't really know about that one.

[Vaxen]

Originally posted by sockesocke:

dodonpachi resurrection is one of the easier shmups.

Hugely disagree.

[Vaxen]

I would say easier shmups are basic stuff like Galaga, Xevious, Time Pilot, Space Invaders 91', Witch Bot Meglilo, etc.

[DaringSpino34]

Dont' worry if you haven't 1 CC a bullet hell games. They are designed to be hard as hell. And just remember that even the pro/elite players (like Prometheus who played DoDonPachi and got 547 million scores) take months/years playing just to get those high scores.

[Rodin]

I think I will never beat them 1 CC, althoug I enjoy playing them. I have just fun plaing them, trying to beat my personal highscore. Thats enough, for me.

[flappyjackz]

clover-tac, the japanese guy who holds most of the world records for cave shmups, spends over a 1000 hours on just one game. I assume he has some nautral talent and ablity with shmups and he still has to spend a lot of time playing and practicing to play at his level.

heres some advice:
1. people get so focused on bullet dodging they forget these games are called shooters for a reason. when and what you shoot can have a significant effect on what bullets you will have to dodge. This will also significanly effect your score,which increases your chances of a 1 cc, as you earn extra lives through scoring. its easy to keep your focus on the middle of the screen downward. as you practice, more of your focus should be toward the top of the screen where the enemies come out. good shump players have good reflexes but dont 1 cc because their reflexs are a lot better than everyone elses. youre reacting to whats happening on the screen where as they are acting according to a plan. they know what enemies are coming out next, where theyre coming out, and what kind of patterns they shoot. the time it takes you to figure out what to do can be the difference in getting hit or not. think of a shmup like learning to play a song. if youre having to spend a lot of time thinking of the notes you need to sing/play your timing is going to off and it wont sound right.



learn how to lead bullets- many bullets are fired directly at you. instead of reacting to them when they start coming, learn to lead them to the place on the screen where they are easiest to deal with. if you know the bullets will be fired to point x (which is the location of your ship) you will be able to vacate that spot before they get there. the more you can predict the less time it takes to react.
--------E-------------------
- -
- x -> . . -
- . . o .. -
- . .. . -
- . -
- -
----------------------------
when you already know an enemy (E) shoots bullets directly at you, you can go to the position you want those bullets to go (X) so that when you move to the right (in this example) to position (O) you dont need to pay any attention to the bullets fred by (E) and can put your focus on navigating the bullets in the area you are moving into.

The biggest thing (which comes with practice) is understanding that although there is a lot going on all over the screen you dont need to pay attention to all of it all the time. you have to learn what needs your focus and when, what you can keep on the peripheral and what you can ignore. just like most problems when you break things down into smaller parts something that seems overwhelming becomes more managable.

good luck and remember the most important thing is having fun and dont compare yourself to other players cause a lot of people like to inflate how good they are and how "easy" a game is.

[Celery]

Just practice. If you watch videos of other players it can help too. It's helpful to use practice mode to get better at sections you find difficult.

[Yggi]

Maybe try "Exceed 3rd" - the Bullets are slow, the music is gr8 and it's pretty easy imo
But I haven't had troubles here either. I played about 5 hrs and 1cc'd it twice AND did the 2nd loop (omote). If u have troubles with stage 5 - just do the practicemode.