historical events and sandbox mode

[archita]

I like the idea of a historically-correct Civ game. I presume that devs took inspiration from King of Dragon Pass on choices of traits of own tribe :)

I suggest to refix the mechanism of events because I consider bad idea the way to "skip" events. The events must be natural reactions to player gameplay, not pre-set events. My humbly opinion of course.

I suggest a sandbox general map of whole Nile area also, not historical micro-scenarios only.

I hope future plans on urban development, law reforms and more choices on land management and people and military development.

I hope interesting gameplay concepts on commerce with foreigners and management on nubians :)

[clarusvictoria]

Thanks for you advices! Yes, King of Dragon Pass, was in our references ;)

[bridgeofblues]

I love KoDP to death. I think we will be seeing more that in the sequels. But yes I would to see more that once we start reach proto-state and state levels. Even chieftains is unlock we are leader of confederation tribal management could involved. Then once we get to state level it because more complex.

[archita]

I remember that there is project of KoDP 2 named "Six Ages". I presume that it will be released next year :)

I wish a real pharaoh management in future :) more deep managament of cities, religious rituals,commerce and war soon :)

[bridgeofblues]

Originally posted by archita:

I remember that there is project of KoDP 2 named "Six Ages". I presume that it will be released next year :)

I wish a real pharaoh management in future :) more deep managament of cities, religious rituals,commerce and war soon :)

I feel the same! Even though I love the game how it is more depth never hurt.

[Mike Vasilev]

Let’s think about sandbox.
Any ideas?

What should it includes as I am thinking:
- No time limit.
- No historical events and no trials.
- Extra event for army where you will be able to send your troops to fight with different countries (Mesopotamia, Upper Nubia).
- More extra events.
- Different tech and build tree (unlimited techs and buildings with increasing cost).

[bridgeofblues]

Originally posted by Mikhail Vasilyev:

Let’s think about sandbox.
Any ideas?

What should it includes as I am thinking:
- No time limit.
- No historical events and no trials.
- Extra event for army where you will be able to send your troops to fight with different countries (Mesopotamia, Upper Nubia).
- More extra events.
- Different tech and build tree (unlimited techs and buildings with increasing cost).

I like your ideas but how can me make them historical make sense?
I think cool feature would be everytime are socially rise there another mechanic add. If would be cool to feel like tribal elder in the beinging and then play as the king at end. Could add in things about court politics governor appointment etc.
What What did the government of early dynastic Egypt look like?

[LazySamurai]

Originally posted by Mikhail Vasilyev:

Let’s think about sandbox.
Any ideas?

What should it includes as I am thinking:
- No time limit.
- No historical events and no trials.
- Extra event for army where you will be able to send your troops to fight with different countries (Mesopotamia, Upper Nubia).
- More extra events.
- Different tech and build tree (unlimited techs and buildings with increasing cost).

-----

Let me first say I really like the game! It's a bit short though as I hoped to see the later periods too. Its fun to see the educational part in this game too. I didn't know much about the early parts of egyptian history, so it's fun to see a bit about it. As a historian myself I fully agree with spreading this knowledge. By the way your earlier games of Stone/Mesopotamia age and Greeks are fun too, I play them on my phone from time to time. :)

----

Some nice idea's above. I'd suggest to make all those options 'choices' in a custom game sandbox mode. So if you want to play without time limit but with historical events, you can choose to do so and so forth. ( and you can make that reflect in points at the end, we need something to strive for. Achievements maybe? Or unlockable arts? )

Some more ideas, might be to difficult to incorporate into game, but i'll post it anyway:

- More monument building > some choice for great projects as a victory condition
( complete first steppe piramid to win etc )
- More win conditions, Trade/Diplo all tribes/peoples, Unification of whole Nile area, Conquest of neighbours, etc.
- Different kinds of laborers [slaves produce less, but are cheaper. Can be captured or raided too ]
- If laborers are at a location for a set amount of turns they turn into 'specialists' and give bonuses which are lost if you move them. Leading to serious choices if you have not enough people. Forcing priests to do farm work will lead to lower production and raise rebellion.
- Production of trade goods? can be gained [randomly placed] on map.
- Specific goods needed for monument constructions. You need to build Mine or conquer tribe to gain it in order to build a monument for bonuses or end points.
- Custom Shareable Player Scenarios and Leaderboards?
[ Locked settings and try to get highest score! Maybe some contests? ]
- Some more religious choices maybe for different playthoughs and combinations?
Like choosing a different patron god. Who give other stats and playstyles/researches.

Ofcourse many of my idea's are mainly for later periods especially the below religious options.

We already have Horus [-building time] and Seth [+warriors/strength]
a. other major gods with changes after rebellion or just time, you can choose and must lock a few.
b. festivals/power religion choices:

- Osiris [+power/+food ]
- Isis [+chance of good events]
- Toth [+research]
- Anubis [-enemy strength]
- Bastet [-worker price]
- Hapi [+food on floodplains]
- Amun/Ra/Aten [+food farms/+power]
- Ptah [+production]
- Toth [+science]
- Ma'at [+better trade/+better relations] (?)
- Sekhmet [+strength soldiers]
- Hathor [+food/+science]
- some more minor gods events like Bes, Nepthys etc?

Maybe more later!

[archita]

I like idea of @LazySamurai :) and I wish suggest a way to buy nubian mercenaries with other ( food or power ? ).

[Mike Vasilev]

I like some ideas too but to be more objective need some more ideas.

[archita]

I wish more buildings on army, buildings to train lancers,chariots and nubian mercenaries as well :)

[Philippe_at_bay]

I think some of this would be fine in a game about Egypt in the Middle Kingdom or during one of the Intermediate periods, but I'm not entirely comfortable with having this kind of thing happen in the Old Kingdom, let alone during the pre-dynastic period.

There are already too many Mesopotamian traders running around in the game as it is. A couple of thousand years later, fine. But in the fourth and fifth millenium? Anyone who's studied lapis lazuli knows that goods got around (most lapis in the Old World came from Badakshan, the slivver of Afghanistan between Pakistan and China). But the goods moved through the mechanism of exchange, not because someone trekked halfway across the Middle East. When Iraqi goods show up in Egypt, it's probably courtesy of your friendly local Levantine merchant.

Maybe what's needed is a parallel game with a name like 'Ur of the Chaldees' (biblical quote and title of a famous book by Sir Leonard Wooley). The artwork would have to be very different, but beer would figure prominently.

I'm not so sure about getting rid of the trials, since without them there would be too much unchecked growth and players would create a giant multi-national Egyptian state in less than a thousand years that would make a hyper-diffusionist proud -- those were/are the guys who, whenever they see something very old that they don't happen to be familiar with, announce with great conspiratorial gravity that the Egyptians did it, like the pyramids in Mesoamerica or the megalithic stone temples in Zimbabwe (though those got blamed on the Phoenicians, as often as not).

[bridgeofblues]

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

I think some of this would be fine in a game about Egypt in the Middle Kingdom or during one of the Intermediate periods, but I'm not entirely comfortable with having this kind of thing happen in the Old Kingdom, let alone during the pre-dynastic period.

There are already too many Mesopotamian traders running around in the game as it is. A couple of thousand years later, fine. But in the fourth and fifth millenium? Anyone who's studied lapis lazuli knows that goods got around (most lapis in the Old World came from Badakshan, the slivver of Afghanistan between Pakistan and China). But the goods moved through the mechanism of exchange, not because someone trekked halfway across the Middle East. When Iraqi goods show up in Egypt, it's probably courtesy of your friendly local Levantine merchant.

Maybe what's needed is a parallel game with a name like 'Ur of the Chaldees' (biblical quote and title of a famous book by Sir Leonard Wooley). The artwork would have to be very different, but beer would figure prominently.

I'm not so sure about getting rid of the trials, since without them there would be too much unchecked growth and players would create a giant multi-national Egyptian state in less than a thousand years that would make a hyper-diffusionist proud -- those were/are the guys who, whenever they see something very old that they don't happen to be familiar with, announce with great conspiratorial gravity that the Egyptians did it, like the pyramids in Mesoamerica or the megalithic stone temples in Zimbabwe (though those got blamed on the Phoenicians, as often as not).

I agreed I scary that it could turn it into a very different game. I want thing to feel natural to the time and place in the era it took place in.

[LazySamurai]

Originally posted by bridgeofblues:

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

I think some of this would be fine in a game about Egypt in the Middle Kingdom or during one of the Intermediate periods, but I'm not entirely comfortable with having this kind of thing happen in the Old Kingdom, let alone during the pre-dynastic period.

There are already too many Mesopotamian traders running around in the game as it is. A couple of thousand years later, fine. But in the fourth and fifth millenium? Anyone who's studied lapis lazuli knows that goods got around (most lapis in the Old World came from Badakshan, the slivver of Afghanistan between Pakistan and China). But the goods moved through the mechanism of exchange, not because someone trekked halfway across the Middle East. When Iraqi goods show up in Egypt, it's probably courtesy of your friendly local Levantine merchant.

Maybe what's needed is a parallel game with a name like 'Ur of the Chaldees' (biblical quote and title of a famous book by Sir Leonard Wooley). The artwork would have to be very different, but beer would figure prominently.

I'm not so sure about getting rid of the trials, since without them there would be too much unchecked growth and players would create a giant multi-national Egyptian state in less than a thousand years that would make a hyper-diffusionist proud -- those were/are the guys who, whenever they see something very old that they don't happen to be familiar with, announce with great conspiratorial gravity that the Egyptians did it, like the pyramids in Mesoamerica or the megalithic stone temples in Zimbabwe (though those got blamed on the Phoenicians, as often as not).

I agreed I scary that it could turn it into a very different game. I want thing to feel natural to the time and place in the era it took place in.

Agreed. That's why my suggestions covered the Old and Middle Kingdom period. Brainstorming is fun. :D If you want to add anything to this game it must be placed within it's historical context and more importantly fit in the strict point design this game has. Balance in a game system like this is easily broken. Or else we indeed get ancient aliens and atlantis added to the mix, haha. Hilarious, but it has not much place in this game. And 'what-if history' is better left in the hands of sid's civilization type of games. The fact that the games of clarusvictoria try to follow a people/'nation' within limited confines of gamebalance and history is one of it's selling points.

All this got me thing that adding something to the pre-dynastic period for a longer and replayable game will be hard. Simply because not all that much is known about it. And something we might know might not be all that interesting to put into a game.

So the best thing to do ( in my point of view ) would be to expand the timeline and just add the rest of the ancient egyptian periods. To make a longer and more replayable game without changing too much of the inner workings ( and it's strengths ) of the game.

Problem is ofcourse that egypt had a multitude of peoples and customs in all those different cities and the game must shift to a more 'generalistic' view of egypt at a certain point in the game away from Hierokonpolis. Maybe one shifts from the city view to the pharaonic 'kingdom' view after the unification period and that will be your home screen where you place all your workers. Maybe you can go back to the 'local city view' when you build monuments or certain highlighted places on the map and do some micro-management of placing workers and all that. So instead from going from local city view to regional kingdom view you go the other way round at a certain point in the game. In the end-game you can go a bit 'less restricted' with history and try to conquer the asia minor region or africa. Like in the earlier game.

[clarusvictoria]

We learn our lessons here. We just need to give the players both modes - histoical and open-world, where open-world is just playing around without messing with historical line and the historical mode - something we have now with tined balance and addition difficulty option - like "I am just for the Story".

[archita]

I suggest to avoid "casual" term because it can be offensive for players :) I suggest historical mode and open-world mode :)