The upgrade system

[Wiawyr]

Is there a way to make this less frustrating and obnoxious? Every time I see a weapon I'm not carrying, I remember the previous times I saw it in that area and feel like I should be backtracking to collect them and bring them up so I'm not missing out on any possible upgrades. Every time I want to use a weapon that isn't at max, I remember that you can only upgrade from max ammo and so don't use it.

From how I understand it this system is counter-intuitive and heavily discourages switching weapons, but maybe I'm just missing something that actually makes it a positive aspect to the game rather than a tedious chore. For some weapons it seems nearly impossible to upgrade them while actually using them because of the infrequency of their drops. Is there a mechanic or something that I'm just not seeing or using?

[Lunaedge]

Play the game on God Hard and you won't have to worry about the upgrades.

Because they aren't there at all.

This becomes way less of an issue if you start seeing the upgrades as occasional bonuses instead of something important, which from what I've heard is exactly the case, as the upgrade system was supposedly tacked on the game later in development and doesn't affect the overall balance much at all (like I said, you can't even upgrade them on the highest difficulty).

[Wiawyr]

It's not as much about the balance (or at all, really) as it is the mindset of "I could be playing better/more efficiently/etc." and the feeling of losing an opportunity rather than rarely finding a bonus.

[Skeeka]

Yeah, the way upgrades work is somewhat counter intuitive, you just gotta learn to ignore it, in the end most of the upgrades matter less than you'd think.

You fight the giant Argus robot three times throughout the game and his last form goes down really fast. For the longest time I figured that was because I maxed out my assault rifle at that point, but no, he just doesn't have much health in the third encounter to begin with, weapon upgrades didn't factor in all that much.

[Wiawyr]

What you say is true. Getting to that mindset is the biggest hurdle with this system for me, but all my previous experience with shooters tells me not to ignore them. It's quite vexing.

[Xenos]

Vanquish itself seems to be two different ideals clashing against each other.
You have an upgrade system that doesn't match the low ammo, high weapon switching gunplay.
And you also have a ton of mobility yet NEED to take cover constantly or else you just get mowed down.
All the movement mechanics are fast-paced and high-action, but you constantly accidentally turn on slow-mo bullet time both while just trying and aim and every time you almost die.

It's like Vanquish is fighting itself to determine its own genre. It's weird.

[Plumber]

After understanding how the weapon upgrade system worked, and after playing through the campaign once already so I knew where the weapon drops were, it wasn't that much of a problem in practice. If you abstain from juggling fresh weapon drops, you still end up with plenty of power for the "main" weapons, particularly the basic assault rifle, the heavy machine gun, and shotgun. Most of the special weapons are good enough for their intended purpose that they'll steamroll in their element without any upgrades at all. LFE, saw, rockets, AP pistol, sniper all do just fine out of the gate.

The boost rifle is the only thing that I feel you "must" invest in to get comparative mileage out of, since the standard rifle outperforms it with a few upgrades and has far better ammo economy to boot. The plasma beam and the lock-on laser are the only two weapons that felt weak, period. The disc cutter chopping off Romanov limbs - particularly their heads - means it'd be useful even if it did no damage at all.

However, the upgrade system was absolutely stressful for me on a first playthrough, since I had no idea what to prepare for or for which weapons upgrades would be most important. I think if the upgrade system had to stay, it would be better if it tracked newly found weapons regardless of whether or not you were already carrying the weapon and have it at maximum ammo capacity. Reward the player for fully clearing rooms and allow them to swap weapons on a whim without being shy about benching a weapon or two for a while. The level design already encourages it, with the 'special' weapons usually having favorable vantage points or enemy configuration.

I did not enjoy God Hard because it gave you less margin for error and stunts the core mechanics of the game; there's no doubt it takes technical skill to complete, but I enjoyed the Tactical Challenges much more, which were very difficult but still conforming to the rules of Hard.

[Lunaedge]

Originally posted by Xenos:

And you also have a ton of mobility yet NEED to take cover constantly or else you just get mowed down.

Not really. Learning your arsenal and a few advanced techniques is enough to discard any need for cover in the hands of a decent enough player in most situations. Hell, there are people who who manage to beat the game on God Hard with no cover at all.

Cover in this game is like the auto-combo option for newbies and people who don't feel like learning the game you see in games like Bayonetta.

[Skeeka]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

What you say is true. Getting to that mindset is the biggest hurdle with this system for me, but all my previous experience with shooters tells me not to ignore them. It's quite vexing.

If it helps to put your mind at ease, just think about how using the mission select puts you in the game with all weapons back to their base level no matter at which point of the game you jump in. They're not vital.