Morale ugh

[Galahad]

Morale is far too powerful. I lose a single fight early and my opponent gets 1 star up and it snowballs. Theres no way to come back from an early loss against a competant player. This mechanic just makes it impossible to come back unless you're playing against a far less skilled player.

[T_ormoz]

Read more about morale here http://www.mw2.su/en/physics_en/morale/, it should help you to improve your skill

[Galahad]

It doesn't have anything at all to do with not understanding how it works. If you read my original post I obviously have some understanding of the mechanic. And nothing in the link you posted gives you any solution to your opponent getting a single early star and there being no way to recover from that other than to hope that they're stupid and don't attack given the advantage. If you're down just 1 star you can't do anything but sit there and hope they dont attack you long enough to lose their advantage. So youre telling me I have to hope they're an idiot. Awesome.

This mechanic is stupid.
Full stop.

[T_ormoz]

The morale is the most balance thing in this game lol. I can tell it as a 2 years experienced player first of all. I'm not involved in development, just a community manager - so I know what I tell from players side.
If you can't do a thing when you are 1 star morale down is not a balance question, is about a skill. So go read link above again, watch pro players replays and try to figure out yourself what to do in such situations. Or yeah, stop playing this game that hurts you so much. GL

Originally posted by Galahad:

It doesn't have anything at all to do with not understanding how it works. If you read my original post I obviously have some understanding of the mechanic. And nothing in the link you posted gives you any solution to your opponent getting a single early star and there being no way to recover from that other than to hope that they're stupid and don't attack given the advantage. If you're down just 1 star you can't do anything but sit there and hope they dont attack you long enough to lose their advantage. So youre telling me I have to hope they're an idiot. Awesome.

This mechanic is stupid.
Full stop.

[Galahad]

At what point did I say it was a balance issue? It's not that one character or another has some advantage from it. So saying its balanced isnt relevant to what I'm saying at all. You lose 1 early fight and unless you're playing against someone who's terrible at the game you're better served quitting and starting a new game. Because if they push like they're supposed to then that 1 star becomes 2 and then 3 and there's no way to recover. Simply put, if you lose a fight early the only way to come back is if the other guy stops attacking and lets you.

That's stupid. Not unbalanced. Stupid.

[Expirium]

If you understand the game then you should understand that morale lets you snowball- so quick decisive attacks are key- and with high morale you can do a lot without worrying too much about enemy actions:

If someone has high morale and high unit count (more than you) then you've lost unless they make a huge mistake.

Quick games, 5-10 minute games = mushroom wars. That's the game.

Also, if you struggle with morale.. pick a hero that uses morale spells.

[Galahad]

I dont so much struggle with it as think that it's silly to have the games or maps promote a game that lasts far longer than the actual length of a match. If you win the first engagement then you win short of making a huge stupid mistake. So make the maps only have 4 or 5 points on it and be honest about how this mechanic affects a match.

[BloodyBlades]

Just because someone else knows how to gain moral and use it to steam roll you doesn't mean its stupid. Moral is very easy to get. Just defend. Have one village ready and when your opponent attacks it send more units to it, and send units to the village you just sent from, I promise you once they see your units leaving they will send more but you will have the units to protect it. just watch your moral climb.

Or play wilford and gain max moral for 5 seconds.

[Galahad]

So again, win the early engagement win the game. You're making my point for me. Once that early engagement is over the loser should just quit and start a new game. What's the point of all the rest of the game if the early fight determines the winner of the game, barring a stupid mistake. How is it not stupid to make the rest of a match moot after the first fight is over?

[Galahad]

Annnnnnnnd having gained more than 1000 multiplayer rating this I'll thought out mechanic still only accomplishes one thing. Making sure no one ever comes back from an early loss. If that's what you intend then I guess mission accomplished. Because no one ever comes back from losing the very first fight in a game and going down a star or 2. Hell I've had multiple games where I traded a single village back and forth early and even though we only traded a single building back and forth someone somehow has 3 stars to the other players none, which is gg.

This mechanic is stupid

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[【✹】？？？]

Originally posted by Galahad:

Annnnnnnnd having gained more than 1000 multiplayer rating this I'll thought out mechanic still only accomplishes one thing. Making sure no one ever comes back from an early loss. If that's what you intend then I guess mission accomplished. Because no one ever comes back from losing the very first fight in a game and going down a star or 2. Hell I've had multiple games where I traded a single village back and forth early and even though we only traded a single building back and forth someone somehow has 3 stars to the other players none, which is gg.

This mechanic is stupid

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So how can you say that this mechanic is stupid when you only have around 1000 rating points? Without morale this game pretty much becomes so much more complex, the games last longer & it can become very boring and tedious. It becomes a battle about who can produce more units than the other player first and allows people to just infinitely attack others and get away with it. How is this fun?

If top players were to have this, they would achieve stalemate in majority of the maps and it becomes almost impossible to attack the other player when you cant gain anything out of it or even earn advantage. The game would last at the LEAST: 30 mins tops. Morale prevents all of that.

Morale has its ups and downs though. Morale makes the game much shorter and promotes better attacking strategy and defensive maneuvering instead of the traditional (outproduce, spam attack) tactics. But it also favors defending more than attacking. It can be very hard to attack against defensive heroes sometimes and if you mess up your attack, you can lose pretty hard. There are a few heroes who can counter it, like (Ayner & Dora) And mouro with his 3rd ability that allows the player to earn morale from attacking. Technically Ayner and dora are strong heroes for their abilities to control/use morale to their favor but, they also have their weaknesses. Dora is vulnerable when rushed early game so there's a high chance you can catch them off guard there. Ayner doesn't have defensive abilities to protect him other than his 4th, so you'll have to attack him constantly and wear him down.

You can always easily come back from morale loss. Play defensively. There are strong defensive heroes that can help you with that, Dora is the best with her chickens that can lower enemy attack rate by 40%, and that'll give you a lot of morale back. You can also use her magnet on a fully loaded building when an enemy tries to attack you, and suck all their units up in one building, and if you have enough units in there you'll easily win the game afterwards. After that it depends on skill, slowly regaining the advantage. Trini, with her 1st ability (Freeze Building) You can freeze an enemy forge for up to 6 seconds and that reduces the enemy attack significantly and it'll give you a lot of morale. Her 3rd ability (Ring of frost) Is a very good and defensive ability that will certainly give you a lot of morale when used right. Her 4th also is very helpful when someone attacks you. It can slaughter a lot of units so best to use it in a massive attack. Kenor is a very defensive tower based hero that can be almost impossible to crack through sometimes in large maps due to his strong defensive capabilities. Building towers can be advantageous to you since you earn morale from shooting enemy units, and his 2nd ability (Explosive Shells) allows you to kill units much more efficiently thus, earning more morale. His 1st ability as well (Tower Defense) is very powerful as it provides a very good defense bonus to your building and provides you morale efficiently. There's many more examples and ways for you to earn morale with heroes and game mechanics but I'll leave it to you to explore. I will agree with you that in some cases FFA maps in ranked can lead to impossible positions because some players choose to play stupidly and one player can gain all the advantage. That is something that the devs can't control and regardless of morale It'll always happen.

You make very bold statements when saying you cant come back from an early loss. That's simply not true, and dare I say you haven't played the game enough to know why.

[【✹】？？？]

Also, 1 star morale difference doesn't mean anything. Upgrading gives you morale and so you'll almost always have 1 star with you. Your problem is clearly lack of defense. Competent players will tell you that it's very easy to defend against that since there isn't much of an advantage when someone has 1 more morale star than you do, and their chances of a successful attack are very low if you know how to defend. Maybe I can't change your mind, but I hope you know that what you think of it isn't true and you're exaggerating the effects.

[Galahad]

Gained. Gained 1000 points. I'm no expert but you've just reiterated the point I'm making. Morale is there to make games end. And it does that. By making a comeback impossible. And if it worked perfectly 100% of the time then fine, whatever. If you guys and the devs want 10 min steamroller games than that's what you're getting. Grats.

But it doesnt work right any where near 100% of the time. It's pretty common for a game to be decided by a single village changing hands back and forth between 2 players in a 1 on 1 but for some reason one of the 2 players now has 3 stars the their opponents 0. If a single building quickly changed hands back and forth several times then how does it make any sense that somehow someone has gained an insurmountable advantage?

Also,this doesnt promote any greater depth or tactical acumen. You win an early fight, gain a morale advantage and push with it. As long as you're not making bonehead mistakes with your attacks then you've won the game. This latest patch came out. I maxed out unit production and building upgrade speed. I get an early unit advantage. Win the initial confrontation to get the 3 or so stars you get for that and roll over much higher rated players. I've gained 1200 rating since the patch. I have no delusions that I'm suddenly that much better at the game. I'm abusing your stupid mechanic and winning an inordinate amount of the time as a result. I'm not complaining about losing to morale here. I'm saying that it's dumb to win this way. It's dumb that the game is decided in the first 3 mins of a match. This whole thing is stupid.

I'm not saying it's unfair. If you want mindless 10 minute steamroller games then sure. Keep it how you have it.

[【✹】？？？]

Originally posted by Galahad:

Gained. Gained 1000 points. I'm no expert but you've just reiterated the point I'm making. Morale is there to make games end. And it does that. By making a comeback impossible. And if it worked perfectly 100% of the time then fine, whatever. If you guys and the devs want 10 min steamroller games than that's what you're getting. Grats.

But it doesnt work right any where near 100% of the time. It's pretty common for a game to be decided by a single village changing hands back and forth between 2 players in a 1 on 1 but for some reason one of the 2 players now has 3 stars the their opponents 0. If a single building quickly changed hands back and forth several times then how does it make any sense that somehow someone has gained an insurmountable advantage?

Also,this doesnt promote any greater depth or tactical acumen. You win an early fight, gain a morale advantage and push with it. As long as you're not making bonehead mistakes with your attacks then you've won the game. This latest patch came out. I maxed out unit production and building upgrade speed. I get an early unit advantage. Win the initial confrontation to get the 3 or so stars you get for that and roll over much higher rated players. I've gained 1200 rating since the patch. I have no delusions that I'm suddenly that much better at the game. I'm abusing your stupid mechanic and winning an inordinate amount of the time as a result. I'm not complaining about losing to morale here. I'm saying that it's dumb to win this way. It's dumb that the game is decided in the first 3 mins of a match. This whole thing is stupid.

I'm not saying it's unfair. If you want mindless 10 minute steamroller games then sure. Keep it how you have it.

It's much better to have 10 minute games than spend hours playing this.. The game isn't really decided from the beginning based on how you play. Again, comebacks are never impossible. Even if it was against very good players. You are right that morale is very strong when a player accumulates all of it, but the reason why is fairly simple. A bad attack will cost you the game sometimes.

The reason why morale keeps switching fast on 1 on 1 village captures is because you gain morale from capturing villages + you lose morale when units die, and whoever gains the village and manages to defend it wins all the morale, so yes there's a bit of a luck value going on there and you generally want to avoid that, but there are ways to circumvent this.

Denser attacks significantly improve your chances of capturing a contested building, as well as building a forge. Not a lot of people know what a forge is and it helps a lot. You realize that there's always a risk when pushing with morale advantage, right? Hero abilities? Defensive capabilities? Map choice? It's not really easy to bum rush someone when you get morale, definitely when you play against very good players as well. You'd always want to avoid 1 on 1 attacks since these easily always go sideways for either player. You'd need good ability usage and timing to make it work and this takes a lot of time to master but it's doable. Not impossible.

No idea how you think those 10 minutes are "mindless streamroll" You know it takes less than 2 minutes to steamroll someone if you were to gain morale that fast. You have to watch some top players playing, you'll definitely see how none of your "morale op" comments don't apply to them. Even more so when they understand what hero to use, how to attack & defend, and slowly gain advantage with it. I've seen many players come back from a disadvantaged position and won, so how can you still say that?

[【✹】？？？]

You can also always watch replays and put them in slow-motion and analyze how morale works..(Watching how the units enter the building and logically conclude which of the marching units capture the building) It works just as intended. So I don't understand the point you're making that it's not working perfectly? It's all about timing and you can manipulate that.

[Galahad]

Happy to see that I'm talking to myself here. You're not even reading what I'm saying based on your responses. Cool man. Go lecture someone else. I don't need the mechanic explained to me and I've certainly not gained 1200 rating in a couple of weeks while not being aware of how forges work FFS. Yes, you're a fanboy and clearly love winning games based on the morale steamroll. Cool story bro.