Arm Wrestling is too long

[Dimu]

Actually I search to unlock all shards,and I must finish 3 encounters : Arm Wrestling, spyglasses and watch tower.
For spyglasses and the watch tower, I understand the specific conditions for both, but arm wrestling is just too long and need an insane luck because it's needed :
-colbjorn (for his dice)
-blessing +2 by dice (during the challenge of the Hight Priestess)
-have the ring with the +2 final score
-other stuff to have a chance of retry a roll

But how I suppose to do, when I'm force to do 22+ just on the first card on my first move, without nothing ? The only solution to do this it's a perfect 6 on all dice. Seriously ?

Maybe it's just me, but reduce the number of encounter (and obtain the shard) will be good. 5 encounters will be enough (the attempt when we must do 18), because the chance to finish the shard will be better, and let's playing the other cards with shards. And if I compare with other cards in the same type (like joust), the number of encounter of arm wrestling is completly unequal.

[Lee]

Hi Dimu!

We'll take a look at the requirements for the Arm Wrestling shard and see if we need to make another balance pass - I think early on the intention was that you had to get even further into the contest before you unlocked the shard, so there's certainly scope to adjust it if we determine it's still unreasonable.

[AlexTheRussian]

Would you like me to compute the odds for you of 5 encounters with increasing requirement for dice pass on 3 dice, with final encounter requiring 22?

Anyone who says they got it in legit way is lying and doesn't understnad math.

[courtney]

Originally posted by AlexTheRussian:

Would you like me to compute the odds for you of 5 encounters with increasing requirement for dice pass on 3 dice, with final encounter requiring 22?

Anyone who says they got it in legit way is lying and doesn't understnad math.

Hi Alex, thanks for your input. We wanted to make sure that the player cards have a strong impact on the game, so when attempting this particular hurdle we hoped that the player would include such things as taking Col along (roll an extra dice), Weave of the Protector (extra reroll), Gambler's Hood (optionally reroll all 2s and 5s) and / or Gambler's Jewel (+2 to dice score) as well as maybe hoping for "Divine Intervention" (reroll lowest dice) or "Divine Providence" (adds +1 or +2 to each dice).

For many tokens and shards, we also hope that they come together over multiple challenges. In the case of any target over 18 though, random luck won't be enough and players will need to bring something to overcome it.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Dimu]

Originally posted by Lee:

Hi Dimu!

We'll take a look at the requirements for the Arm Wrestling shard and see if we need to make another balance pass - I think early on the intention was that you had to get even further into the contest before you unlocked the shard, so there's certainly scope to adjust it if we determine it's still unreasonable.

Actually, it's the last encounter shard that I must done, all the other are done. I've already done all gold tokens in the story mode, unlock all token on weapons, armors, artefacts. The only thing I must done is the shards for weapons, armors and artefacts, and I already farm for it. So, what do I suppose to say, if I'm late in the game (to not say after the end game) ?

These last day, I insist on the shards because that the only reason why I don't touch the endless mode, because I want to be completely prepared for it, unlocked all as possible. But for now, all the time I see Arm Wrestling appears, I'm just...frustrated to see it, thinking "not again !" when for many other I thought "okay, let's do this" . Like the shard on the Swamp and we must done a critical success during a pendulum, it's hard but not impossible, just need the time to find the good timming. In the case of Arm Wrestling, if I 've not some advantages for the last rolls (as Courtney says before), I'm forced to lose and redone all the challenge from the beginning, it's just insane. That's for why I think, place the limit to the fifth turn (when we must done 18, as the token of the card, if I remember) is enough, because the players have a chance to complete the shard with the base dices (and if necessary, Colbjorn can help in the last resort).

[AlexTheRussian]

Hi Courtney,

Thank you for direct feedback however I was refering to the odds while having ALL of those items equipped.

Lets take the last two encounters for example (with all the items and blessings, initial 3 are not that bad).

So, first we have an encounter with 20 roll to succeed. Excluding the ring of +2 and blessing of divine providence that gives +1 to every die, t hat means we need to roll 15. On the last challenge we need an unmodified roll of 17.

The rest of the items are just rerolls, which is not any different than save-scumming, which is identical to quitting before reaching the challenge (if trying to farm it through scenarios) if you don't have all the items.

If someone is playing through endless, then they most likely have all the items (although getting that blessing in endless is a monumental pain, as in fact getting any blessings), but rolling unmodified 15 followed by unmodified 17 with 2 or 3 rerolls is just... not happening.

If you don't believe me, grab a set of 3 dice and just spend some time rolling non-stop. See how many attempts it will take you. Took me, I believe 14 attempts to roll just unmodified 17.

So, what is the point of that challenge? Even if player collects all the items, it is still complete RNG. There is no player agency in getting final result right as they can't influence it. For unlucky person who DOESN't save-scum or resets the challenge is unending grind, with nothing to show for it. At the end of the day, the game and the encounter are suppose to be fun, something to strive for. You might have as well put a requirement for someone to go win a lottery while they are at it. The odds are only slightly better.

Ask Dimu in the post above.

I urge you to re-evaluate SO many encounters in the game with one question: Is this going to be fun for the player.

[Dimu]

Originally posted by AlexTheRussian:

I urge you to re-evaluate SO many encounters in the game with one question: Is this going to be fun for the player.

There are only three cards with shards, which can be hard :

-Joust, but with the rework on it, this encounter is fair for now. When I try the first times, I didn't understand why players didn't go to the next step of the shard if they win against a challenger. But now, the card is just like it must to be.

-Arm Wrestling, you have explain that I think about the fact the player must be prepared for it, but this preparation is base on luck, too much, except if you save-scumm a lot. And I can't consider it with HoF 2, take some risk is a part of the game, and always reward at the end. But not in this case, fail a step consist to restart all the challenge. That for why reduce the number of encounter is a good thing, not the value that we must done, just the number of encounter we must done.

-Gambler's hood, I never really understand how work this equipment : if I must finish a map with all life (or same amount of life), or all the challenge, this is not clear for me. And all the time I find the item, I'm at the end of a challenge, and the effect doesn't count.
But the equipment could become interesting and challenging just with a simple modification : place the gambling before the fights and be reward if you realise a none dommage fight , and not base on the end of a map. The interesting point will be to learn how play with taking time and not just to rush a fight, just because player don't care about it.

[LE_MALEM]

Originally posted by Dimu:

Originally posted by AlexTheRussian:

-Gambler's hood, I never really understand how work this equipment : if I must finish a map with all life (or same amount of life), or all the challenge, this is not clear for me. And all the time I find the item, I'm at the end of a challenge, and the effect doesn't count.
But the equipment could become interesting and challenging just with a simple modification : place the gambling before the fights and be reward if you realise a none dommage fight , and not base on the end of a map. The interesting point will be to learn how play with taking time and not just to rush a fight, just because player don't care about it.

Gambler's hood is actually easy: Make sure that you are full hp before you end the map aka you transition from map to map. You can unequip it during your current map and equip it when you transition. Basically, eat food to heal before you move on and you'll get your gold! It's quite easy when you get hang of it!

[Pingularity]

simply put the target is too high, even with the most beneficial equipment and blessings.

As some feedback, perhaps instead of getting a high target once, change the encounter so it features multiple dice tests of the same target? So you have to get, say 16 (About the same as most of the challenging dice test encounters) several times?

[Ghostican]

Originally posted by Magma Grunt:

simply put the target is too high, even with the most beneficial equipment and blessings.
As some feedback, perhaps instead of getting a high target once, change the encounter so it features multiple dice tests of the same target? So you have to get, say 16 (About the same as most of the challenging dice test encounters) several times?

After a few botched tries, I managed to achieve the target just fine, so I don't necessarily think it's too high or *needs* a rework, but I can definitely see it might get tedious after a while. Your suggestion actually doesn't sound bad at all

[Roadkill]

I agree that this takes too long. If you mess up on the last dice roll, now you have to replay five more quests before you can try the hardest "arm wrestling" encounter again. Add in the fact that you might get the card before you have all the blessings/equipment you need to best it.

[playboi14]

I just wanted to add my two cents here since I'm still struggling with unlocking this.

This was one of the first cards I tried to unlock and it's basically the only card I have left to clear.

The difficulty / duration is a bit crazy. I get totally that multi step cards are good but this feels it should have stopped at 5 encounters with a maximum of 20. 20 feels like a fair and attainable goal (if you take col and get a few items)

What I feel is very unfair is that you need to do successive maps to unlock this. If you're up to encounter 6 (requires a 22 dice roll) and just happen to land on it as your first card in a fresh map you will absolutely not be able to pass it (without collecting boosting gear to help)

When you fail the end encounter it knocks you back to the first encounter, restarting the whole process.

People have said to do it in endless mode but that doesn't solve the issue. This card comes up so rarely that I've gone through a dozen adventures before I've seen it again.

To get this unlocked I'm having to do the emperor map over and over again in hopes of picking up the gear I need before landing on it. It's taking an eternity...

[Jaden]

I was surprised it didn't end after the 4th and had to laugh when the wiki said 9... The chance to win the lottery is higher than doing this without save-scum.

Either it should end at a reasonable stage, say 4 or 5 OR it should not reset when failed, so you have a chance to some day get lucky with your cards AND rolls AND timing when encountering the card.

[Vernerus]

The shard is unlocked at stage 5.

[Jaden]

Ah thank you, didn't see that, my apologies.

[bulgarianBarbarian]

I'll try to get this the honest way, but just in case it is the last shard I have to do and I just kind of give up, is there a way to hack this out of the game files, or a mod to make it easier? Tho reading this thread it sounds like it has been changed somewhat, maybe.