Final Boss Battle

[Lewdovico]

So I just finished up playing through the game, every encounter and equipment thus gained, and I'm a little dissapointed with the boss battle.

To start off with a compliment, I thought the cinematics and the build up to it all was fantastic. Excellent work of rising tension and a good climax. No complaints there.

In terms of criticisms, it was a bit too easy. Truthfully, I don't mind this one as much seeing as how the game as a whole was easy too. I attribute this to the fact that I overplayed HoF1 and also just tend to learn games quickly, I'm not saying anyone who finds HoF2 difficult sucks. Everyone has different skill levels, I understand that. I'm just saying that for those who found the entire game to be kind of breezy, I thought the boss battle would be different. Crank it up a little, that's all I'm saying.

My other criticism, which lies with the previous, is the setup. I honestly though that a similar method would be used from the previous boss battle. An incredibly difficult campaign would be layed out and you'd have to struggle through it, barely surviving, until right at the end, you face the boss. Remember how riveting that was from HoF1? It was so hard! I loved it! Rather than face the boss at peak power with a huge choice of equipment, you face the boss at your lowest, most scarred and cursed existance. Personally, I loved that from the last game.

That's all, I still enjoyed it a lot. Great work designing Kallas and the inclusion of the Dealer really suprised me. Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing, I know it's a total rant. I just love this game so much.

P.S. I had an idea while writing this. Maybe to solve the difficulty problem, add additional harder versions of the Kallas boss fight. Like, if you want, after you beat him the first time, you can face him again but with less gear or he has higher health or you start with a curse. Just an idea. It'd also add room for greater rewards which would give a higher sense of accomplishment. Maybe some more brimstone weapons..?

[seA]

I agree. Just finished the game myself, and felt that the last boss was too simple. The attack patterns were easy, it was dull, and a bit of a let-down. I was hoping for at least a campaign, maybe something like the wagon in an adventure trying to track down Kallas - it doesn't really make sense that the dealer's wagon was situated directly beneath a staircase leading to the dealer's nemesis. Maybe the wagon did travel to find Kallas, and we just skip to the final boss, so why not show that as a campaign by itself?
Maybe it's to ensure that it's not super hard for those who are not used to it, but I didn't expect the final challenge to be THAT easy of a cakewalk, what with having all our equipment readily available.
Comparing it to HoF1's last boss... well, it's like HoF1 stayed true with its punishing theme, meant to be rewarding for the tryhards, and HoF2 was meant for general public, and that kind of makes sense, but honestly, I was hoping that Kallas wasn't the end, because it felt way too easy compared to all the challenges before.

[The Comedian]

Originally posted by seA:

I was hoping for at least a campaign, maybe something like the wagon in an adventure trying to track down Kallas - it doesn't really make sense that the dealer's wagon was situated directly beneath a staircase leading to the dealer's nemesis. Maybe the wagon did travel to find Kallas, and we just skip to the final boss, so why not show that as a campaign by itself?

The wagon is moving constantly as you play the game. The landscape in the windows changes, so does the time of day. The dealer and the player were travelling for a long while before reaching their destination.

[BattisteBeoulve]

Unfortunatly a lot of players thought that the boss of HoF1 was too hard. Personally, I loved how difficult it was and was fairly let down with the Kallas fight. (How did he survive for 100 years with that as his challange!?) the kickstarter campaign for HoF: Ordeals shows that Kallas used to have an actual game rather than just a combat. I understand canonically why he doesn't play cards the whole game is the dealer getting us ready to take on Kallas not know "what changes he's made to the game so I understand if we played cards with him it may not make super canonical sense, but I beat him the first time with 100% health then went back and faced him again after 100% the game wondering/hoping for a secret ending and ended with 100% health again (the fact you can bring lion's potion to this fight is just unfair to the warlord who kicked so much a$$ in HoF1)
at the very least I would love to see a Hard mode released for the whole game (not just for Preistess, Stength, and Empress levels)

Edit: All that being said that is a super minor complaint and I absolutely loved the game as a whole

[Kylestien]

I can only speak for myself, and I've not even fought the boss yet but for me, if you are bad at the game, and yet have been going through every acheviement and gold token along the way so you can 100% it when you beat Kallas, getting really annoyed at each failures espeicaly when so close, and even doing the annoying ones like Grifter which I'm on now... well let me tell you, I look forward to a short walk and a easy fight to finish it off.

[< blank >]

I pretty much echo the same feelings as BattisteBeoulve's comment.
But I'm wondering if the only reason the last boss in HoF1 was so hard was because the campaign leading up to the boss fight usually had you cursed and damaged, or if it's because I can't beat the King of Plague without losing a decent chunck of health :P.

Ultimately I'm thinking it's the campanions that are being extremely helpful since that at least 1 less enemy focused on you. Put 4 of them on the small field and you can easily focus on fighting 1 guy at time.


I'm just disapointed that I didn't see Kallas really do any nods to the Dealer that entire time. Like... Since we go straight into combat Kallas doesn't even pretend he was going to play the game-- like maybe only recreate the last floor of HoF1's final boss level. Heck, the equipment screen could have been where the shop was.
Or how he doesn't even try to deflect the Dealer's magic stun-missle! (or at least I've never seen him do it). I never seen the Dealer take damage, maybe this would jokingly be the only way how?

[Durzlla]

SPOILERS (Duh):

To be honest I would’ve been upset, and disappointed if the main character from HoF1 had a final level, he wasn’t very intelligent and was 100% just a fighter who muscled through every challenge on his own. Where the dealer is very cunning and is absolutely going to chip away at you and curse you to the points the demons of hell feel sorry for you. That’s not the style of this boss, so to expect the same out of him is kinda weird.

That being said, I was very disappointed that Kallas not only didn’t fight with Sword and Board like he did the entirety of the first game, but he also wasn’t using any of the most OP gear from the first one. I was hoping he was going to be in the full set of Dragon Armor or at the very least be using Thunderstrike, OP lightning mace.

That being said though, if the main character of THIS game, is the boss in HoF2 I expect a final level as excruciatingly painful as the first game, and a final fight that encorporates his/her companions.

[Durzlla]

Originally posted by < blank >:

I pretty much echo the same feelings as BattisteBeoulve's comment.
But I'm wondering if the only reason the last boss in HoF1 was so hard was because the campaign leading up to the boss fight usually had you cursed and damaged, or if it's because I can't beat the King of Plague without losing a decent chunck of health :P.

Ultimately I'm thinking it's the campanions that are being extremely helpful since that at least 1 less enemy focused on you. Put 4 of them on the small field and you can easily focus on fighting 1 guy at time.


I'm just disapointed that I didn't see Kallas really do any nods to the Dealer that entire time. Like... Since we go straight into combat Kallas doesn't even pretend he was going to play the game-- like maybe only recreate the last floor of HoF1's final boss level. Heck, the equipment screen could have been where the shop was.
Or how he doesn't even try to deflect the Dealer's magic stun-missle! (or at least I've never seen him do it). I never seen the Dealer take damage, maybe this would jokingly be the only way how?

He actually says at the start of the fight, “what? Did you think we’d play cards? No, I’m a warrior!”

[< blank >]

Originally posted by Durzlla:

He actually says at the start of the fight, “what? Did you think we’d play cards? No, I’m a warrior!”

I hear you, but that's why I feel recreating the last floor in HoF1 would be the most appropriate if Kallas were to pretend to play. The last floor for that campaign is always 3 cards in a straight vertical line. The first one is the portal you come in on, the second is the shop for last minute prep, and the third is the actual boss battle.
I also feel that kind of scenario could also give a little more payoff to the Dealer's multiple line references to what maybe Kallas could have done to change the game instead of ignoring it completely.

But I am the kind of person who likes over-the-top ridiculous scenarios so this scenario would be more 'fantasy wish fulfillment' for me. >_>

[Kylestien]

Ok, I just played it. (If anyone is curious, I got a crash just after the End Cutscen3 with the dealer, so I have the 22 challenge and gold challnge pic end on a poetic "I wonder what this world will be like when you are done." and the actual Patinum achivement pic be the PS4 crash screen. DX)

I got to ask people... did I play the same fight as you guys? Kallas stabbing you left and right, brimstone foes everywhere? I admit, I'm bad at this game, and I admit some might be good at it, but if it was not for Lion's Heart, which I see is a key part of everyone's build here, I'd have lost big time to the giant swarm of foes.

I feel like it's easy if you are good or use optimun sets, and quite difficult if you either don't use optimun sets, or suck.

[Pendanyk]

Originally posted by Kylestien:

I feel like it's [...] quite difficult if you [...] suck.

Congratulations, you've found your problem!

No, in all honesty, Empire soldiers are no threat at all, even brimstone. Northerners even less. There were way too few enemies anyway.

I had the tiniest bit of trouble with the thieves mainly due to having to concentrate on the shade and a lot of things happening on screen (I also only realized halfway through that I was armed with double knifes instead of the sword), but with 4 companions that was doable.

Kallas himself was a joke to fight. He's not "stabbing you left and right". If you're not too bad at the game it's absolutely easy to dodge most if not all of his attacks. Also being able to stun him with the dealer made it even easier.

But the same really applied to the dealer in HoF 1, except that the path to the end battle was harder. Dodging some laser beams wasn't really a challenge.


*Also didn't use Lion's heart, totally forgot about my artifact, which was that cry of glory or something.

[< blank >]

Originally posted by Kylestien:

Ok, I just played it. (If anyone is curious, I got a crash just after the End Cutscen3 with the dealer, so I have the 22 challenge and gold challnge pic end on a poetic "I wonder what this world will be like when you are done." and the actual Patinum achivement pic be the PS4 crash screen. DX)

I got to ask people... did I play the same fight as you guys? Kallas stabbing you left and right, brimstone foes everywhere? I admit, I'm bad at this game, and I admit some might be good at it, but if it was not for Lion's Heart, which I see is a key part of everyone's build here, I'd have lost big time to the giant swarm of foes.

I feel like it's easy if you are good or use optimun sets, and quite difficult if you either don't use optimun sets, or suck.

Hmmm.. I think we're mostly just comparing the difficulty of the first game's final boss to this one. ^^;

HoF1 had a pointy difficulty spike from being rather easy in the beginning, quite challenging in the middle and masochistic by the end. I know form my own experience I was more likely to redo the final level without meeting the boss than I was dying to the boss (thanks card RNG). It's like if you didn't master the game and deck build efficiently it was incredibly frustrating... But beating it did feel like I was telling it: "HA, TAKE THAT! I beat you at your own game!"

I think HoF2 did a good job gradually making it more challenging as the game went on without this massive difficulty spike- (one that ultimately I'm rather thankful for, even if it does feel easier in comparison) so don't worry about it if you felt you had trouble. Perhaps it just means this game has the right difficulty curve for the audience it wants to share it with- in that you don't need to master the game to beat and enjoy it :)

PS: Sorry to hear about your crash, hope that's an isolated incident and not something that happens every time.

[Evildrfrog]

I just finished the final boss and it was pretty good.

I was expecting a final card game and it was just combat. It seemed weird that the 21 previous missions had a series of adventures ending in a boss fight and the last mission was just a boss fight. I think a final, tough, gauntlet run through a dungeon or abandoned temple would have been neat. It would have been cool to have something with traps too.

It was weird that the final boss was teased as having "the world" and being able to summon anything he wanted and then the only minions he summoned were a few meager soldiers. Like no Ogres, no Empire General, no Black Knight, lol Kallas wasn't very imaginative about the minions he summoned to come back him up. I guess that's why he lost.

Anyway, great game!

[Lewdovico]

I thoroughly appreciate everyone's feedback and comments. Many of you reiterated what I felt and I'm glad you were able to share your feelings here.

I think many of you really broke down the heart of my criticism, which in all honesty is the comparison to HoF1. For those who played it, I think you well understand where I'm coming from.

If I had a message to any devs who read this, I think additional harder versions of Kallas would please many people like me. It really opens up a lot of opportunities, both for enjoyment and new equipment! Of course, I know how hard you job is and there's no pressure. I still appreciate everything you do and I honestly worship you for it.

For anyone who felt the HoF2 boss battle was still difficult, I completely understand. I don't want this to come off as a "get good" / "too easy" discussion. Some people just don't reach a certain threshold of ability by the time they reach that point of the game. Despite that, I think once you play enough and really master it, you'll understand where I'm coming from. The boss battle just didn't feel special in terms of difficulty.

Like always, I love this game. I only seek to see it's advancement and development and I think it has unlimited potential. Please continue this discussion if anything, I think it's really productive and I'd like to pick everyone's brains.

[Durzlla]

Originally posted by < blank >:

Originally posted by Durzlla:

He actually says at the start of the fight, “what? Did you think we’d play cards? No, I’m a warrior!”

I hear you, but that's why I feel recreating the last floor in HoF1 would be the most appropriate if Kallas were to pretend to play. The last floor for that campaign is always 3 cards in a straight vertical line. The first one is the portal you come in on, the second is the shop for last minute prep, and the third is the actual boss battle.
I also feel that kind of scenario could also give a little more payoff to the Dealer's multiple line references to what maybe Kallas could have done to change the game instead of ignoring it completely.

But I am the kind of person who likes over-the-top ridiculous scenarios so this scenario would be more 'fantasy wish fulfillment' for me. >_>

I mean if you think of it that’s kinda how the fight went, you had the entrance, and then you had your gear selection, and then you had your fight lol.

I kinda wish that Kallas himself would’ve been more threatening, I know for me he mostly stood there slamming his swords on the ground, I was expecting a little more combat prowess out of him tbh.

Also, it sounds like I’m the only one who didn’t run with lions heart lol, meteor all the way!

[Greig91]

I thought the fight was fine but I was a little disappointed that there was no card gameplay. I get that it wouldn't have made any sense if there was though.

It was a kinda "meh" ending to an otherwise brilliant game. Doesn't hurt the game as a whole, but could probably have been a bit better.