a petition to make kaioken good.

[tiny turtle]

hey time patrollers, i made a petition in the hopes of making kaioken better on xenoverse 2.

if you can, please check it out. https://chng.it/wrKRWncLj8

[FRUIT PUNCH]

Kaioken already is good in the right modes and hands.
Hint: It's not a PvE skill.

Loading screen tip:
Don't click links if you don't know where they go.

[tiny turtle]

Originally posted by Non-Ginary Bender:

Kaioken already is good in the right modes and hands.
Hint: It's not a PvE skill.

Loading screen tip:
Don't click links if you don't know where they go.

It could be better. How about you actually give the petition a read before passing it it off?

[FRUIT PUNCH]

Originally posted by tiny turtle:

How about you actually give the petition a read before passing it it off?

It's behind a link I don't recognize, and kaioken is fine. 😐 How about you figure out how and when to use it?

[tiny turtle]

Originally posted by FRUIT PUNCH:

Originally posted by tiny turtle:

How about you actually give the petition a read before passing it it off?

It's behind a link I don't recognize, and kaioken is fine. 😐 How about you figure out how and when to use it?

Its a change.org link.

[Mike 223]

Ignoring the whole argument on whether Kaioken is good or not, the devs are not going to care. People have been complaining about the truckload of problems this game has for years, and not one of them has been fixed.

It's not worth your time to try and get the devs to improve the game, as sad as the idea of not trying is.

I get wanting the game to be better. But the devs aren't going to put forth the effort to do that.

[tiny turtle]

Originally posted by Mike 223:

Ignoring the whole argument on whether Kaioken is good or not, the devs are not going to care. People have been complaining about the truckload of problems this game has for years, and not one of them has been fixed.

It's not worth your time to try and get the devs to improve the game, as sad as the idea of not trying is.

I get wanting the game to be better. But the devs aren't going to put forth the effort to do that.

Deep sadness ;-;

[Three Thousand Fish]

Originally posted by Mike 223:

Ignoring the whole argument on whether Kaioken is good or not, the devs are not going to care ...

I get wanting the game to be better. But the devs aren't going to put forth the effort to do that.

I don't it's so much that the devs "don't care" as much as it is they don't have the bandwidth. DBX2 was made in 2016, and DIMPS makes other games - it's probably a skeleton crew that's done the ports and DLC since then.

If you look for it, there is a lot of love put in this game, but at the end of the day programmers are just employees who are told what to do by their bosses, who are told what to do by their publisher (Bamco), who aim for profit.

And bugfixes plus tweaking Kaioken is not gonna attract new players. BUT GOKU (MINI)??? 💲🤑💰💹

[tiny turtle]

Since the petition is a complete failure, and you guys think its a scam link, heres the hypothetical new and improved kaioken i suggested in the petition:
*Kaioken: provides a 5% buff to damage (an additional 5% to Kaioken skills) and a -5% tankiness.

*Kaioken x3: provides a 10% buff to damage (an additional 10% to Kaioken skills), Z vanishes cost 1 bar of stamina, and a -10% tankiness as well as a stamina drain of 3.75/sec.

*Kaioken x20: provides a 15% buff to damage (an additional 15% to Kaioken skills), Z vanishes are free, and there is a -15% tankiness as well as a stamina drain of 16/sec.

What do you guys thing?

[Three Thousand Fish]

It's very underwhelming honestly. You suggest only a 2.5% increase to the current user's attack boost from base and x3, and you don't change the current boost from x20 (it is already a 15% buff). You also removed base form's reductions to vanish cost?
Kaioken also boosts movement and stamina damage dealt, which you could consider in the future.

It's a risk/reward skill, and you seem to have overall just gutted the risk of x20 and changed little else. Maybe do something more dramatic, like upping both damage dealt and damage taken, or something new like reducing evasive skill stamina cost or increasing max ki while active.

[Ripz]

every transformation should drain health thats what i think.

[tiny turtle]

Originally posted by Ripz:

every transformation should drain health thats what i think.

ngl that makes sence, in supersonic warriors on gba kaioken drained hp.

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by Ripz:

every transformation should drain health thats what i think.

The more of a hassle something is to use, the less use it will see. I barely remembered to transform in missions as it is and that was for something as basic as regular super saiyan. If something is decidedly inconvenient like with a health drain, then I wouldn't waste my time. There's no benefit it can provide that would be worth it.

[Mike 223]

"Every transformation should drain health" please no

[FRUIT PUNCH]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

If something is decidedly inconvenient like with a health drain, then I wouldn't waste my time. There's no benefit it can provide that would be worth it.

I'm with you on health drain being a generally bad idea, but "worth it" depends on the rate of the detriment and the reward for using it - which is a major point of kaioken in the stories as well as why it's more exciting and engaging than wig changes with no definitions.

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

The more of a hassle something is to use, the less use it will see.

Keep in mind that this is the Xenoverse 2 community. There are some good and smart players out there, but the overwhelming majority will use royal blue over blue - which are the same awoken skill through and through, but one gets a +10% damage benefit (proportionately about 7%, even smaller when we talk super souls) to double the afflicting condition.

+7% (or less) benefit
+100% cost
Bad trade, still way more common.
_

Regarding a kaioken awoken skill focused on damage and health rather than the stamina meddling, I feel like, if anything, it would be fair to introduce it as a separate item from the kaioken we currently have - so a stamina kaioken and a damage kaioken as two separate options in the game.

The damage variant would be a momentary rushdown type of deal, like

• no activation animation; instant activation
  
• +50-60% all damage
  
• for every 100 HP damage you cause, you deal 30 HP to yourself
  
• suffer a drain of maybe 100 HP/sec (which is really not much, but discourages prolonged use)
  
• -20-25% damage resistance while active
  
• cannot be deactivated during hit stun
  
• deactivates after suffering knockback twice

Could bind it to RB + A/X/Y as a temporary boost, kinda like buffs in the Tenkaichi titles, but with activation and deactivation mostly at the player's command. Hell, that way, it could be included with the normal kaioken so you're carrying the stamina variant on RT and the damage variant on RB. Provoke with huge damage, outlast with stamina meddling, payoff with huge damage.

Not tying it to the stamina variant would make it kinda nuts when stacked with other awoken skills, though. Beast already gets +30% all damage and -20% damage resistance. Stack that with the damage kaioken concept and one of my favorite souls ("damn... gonna have to go all out!"):

+110% all damage dealt
but
+70-90% damage to self

Bad route, but this is the kind of MMO magic that Xenoverse could be enabling. Still hypothetical, but fun to contemplate.

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by FRUIT PUNCH:

I'm with you on health drain being a generally bad idea, but "worth it" depends on the rate of the detriment and the reward for using it - which is a major point of kaioken in the stories as well as why it's more exciting and engaging than wig changes with no definitions.

Keep in mind that this is the Xenoverse 2 community. There are some good and smart players out there, but the overwhelming majority will use royal blue over blue - which are the same awoken skill through and through, but one gets a +10% damage benefit (proportionately about 7%, even smaller when we talk super souls) to double the afflicting condition.

+7% (or less) benefit
+100% cost
Bad trade, still way more common.

I'll admit "worth it" is in the eye of the beholder, the popularity of the transformations themselves skews player trends, and you'll always have someone who's going to experiment with the extreme, but there is definitely a player threshhold for convenience. Ki drain is comparatively less of a penalty (vs stamina which most of your defenses depend on to work) and there are easily looked up methods of reducing it.

Yet even then, there were always periodic complaints about blue's ki drain. If it was actually worse, I imagine people who want to use it because they like it from the show, but are severely inconvenienced by the hardships of using it, they would definitely whip up a storm or quit.

People rage over the most trivial of things. There's no way something more significant like that wouldn't whip them up.