Dragon Ball Z Plot Wholes Questions or Theories?

[GuRu Asaki]

Hey, so I may have stumbled apon another Character in the Dragon Ball Universe who is actually a living character... But I need some imput on what you guys think?

So basically the whole thing comes down to, the History or Origins of the SSJ title...

Can anyone actually explain how SSJ even became a thing?

As far as I was aware, the Brolly movies were actually known as a what if storyline... As in what if Brolly hadden't actually died on Planet Vegeta... Which actually states that him dying on Planet Vegeta was actually cannon... But we all know he became a SSJ as a baby, even more so, he was or possibly was the only Saiyan who actually became SSJ, right?

No one could actually sense Power Levels durring the time of Planet Vegetas Destruction...
All they had were Scouters... Who would even know how advanced those even were in that era...

So if no one actually living had known what exactly a SSJ was, known even if Brolly was one, or even had any idea what one looked like, or really any knowlage of it at all...

Then how did SSJ even become a thing? Outside Brolly even becomming one at all?

2nd Question is? If no actual Saiyan had actually fought as a SSJ character, or even had any actual fight training... Then what actually makes Freeza so freaked out about an SSJ Saiyan in the first place?

How does Brolly even become a Ledgend if no one actually knew he was actually an SSJ? @_@

Another thing is? Was Brolly even registered at all, in the scouters database as someone who had even any power level at all? He was technically a new born baby, wasn't he? And even if he had been registered, the scouter can't actually pick up readings of low levels especially from far distances, so if thats true, then even if he had been registered, how powerful would he have to of been for the scouter to of even picked him up at all, considering he was a new born, it just seems unlikely he had given off any form of signs, that would have left any one wondering about what hes actually doing in that era?





So a theory of mine is that someone who actually was present durring the Goku & Brolly baby scenerio, actually could prove that maybe Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, & Goku, weren't actually the last remaining Saiyans alive... What if there were others? What if 1 Saiyan who had actually witnessed Brolly transforming, had indeed survived the planet Vegeta explosion? @_@

And what if this Saiyan, was the one who actually spread the rumor of the ledgendary SSJ...
But didn't actually explain what one would look like?

Or what if all along, Vegeta had actually made up this whole scenerio this whole time, & all this time, the Saiyans had been fighting for something they had no proof to have even existed in the first place... What if they only stumbled apon it by accident, or even by false hope? @_@

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? It really is one major plot whole, & can possibly even ruin the whole entire universe of Dragon Ball, DBZ, & such... I am just curious to know, if anyone can shed any light on this topic?

Does anyone else feel this is a major plot whole? That needs explaining?

[The Eldritch Crow]

The original planet of the Saiyans was destroyed by the “first” super saiyan, after that they traveled to planet Tuffle/Vegeta, from there the legend have it roots

[GuRu Asaki]

lOl... That makes no sense... @_@

If the planet was destroyed by a Super Saiyan? Then who is this Saiyan?

And if they were indeed a Super Saiyan, then wouldn't that mean they were indeed a Ledgend, & not Brolly? I thought Brolly was suppose to be the first? @_@

Also, if this so called Super Saiyan destroyed the Planet, then how does the knowlage of him existing at all, come to those of the characters who are found later on Earth, as the last surviving?

[Ethiesia]

ok. noxious is half right when it comes down to it it was the Super saiyan god that destroyed the saiyans home because he believed that the saiyans were evil this was stated by shenron in super and after the time limit went, he was then killed by his fellow saiyans, this is what most siayns thought was the saiyan legend, this is also what was stated by king kia in DBZ but he said SSJ as SSG wasn't thought about yet.

Second off broly isn't the legend he was considered the legendary SSJ because he could transform into a legendary SSJ stauts noted by his green KI, LSSJ is what i think is a stronger type of SSJ (or some people like to call it super saiyan berserk because it is whats called in super for Kale). And the legend is also real, its just very rare of seeing one thats why its either a myth and legend, as Vegeta does state that the super saiyan only appears every one hundred years in the frieza saga.

Also the if it was a myth made by Vegeta (idk which vegeta your refereing to GuRu Asaki, but im just gonna say you were talking about king vegeta) it wouldn't be like ever saiyan would belive him, just because he is a king doesn't mean he people have to believe him as well some of the saiyans didn't like king vegeta.

Also also the scouters used in DBZ/Super have been very proven to be very bad to use as they are shown to blow up when their eneamies power raises to high to fast, so if anything the scouters in friezas men at the time of planet vegetas destruction would mostly register/break when frieza destroyed it.

I don't believe it is a plot hole and here is the info to prove it, if you have any more info that you think might contribute/disprove my above statement please let me know i might have missed somethings if your confused.

[GuRu Asaki]

Oky, so the information I had looked at on youtube about King Kai talking to Goku about the

Saiyan race...

He never once mentions SSJ in the conversation, plus the conversation makes no sense...

Because he said that the person used Astroids to destroy the Planet Vegeta, right?

Killing every Saiyan on it... Right? Well according to the story, that he said earlier,

the Saiyans got stuck on Planet Plant after killing off all the Tuffles or whatever their called,

they didn't actually destroy the planet... They used a rocket to get to another planet or space

ship, where they became planet take overs, or whatever...

He said some one did destroy the planet, but never mentioned who...

And later in the series, you find out, that Freeza had been the one who attacked, & blew it up,

not an actual Saiyan... @_@

Also, the only mention that Vegeta had said about SSJ was that, Freeza attacked, & blew up the planet because he was afraid of an SSJ would rise up against him...

But if i'm not mistaken, he also mentioned that he was captive by Freeza being forced to do

these missions, there was no mention that he actually had contact with his actual home planet...

& he never actually mentions of any evidence of a SSJ existing before him... ~_~

He only stated that Freeza was afraid one might exist... But when you actually hear Freeza mention it, he calls it a silly ledgend...


So somehow someone who could probably still be alive, or maybe isn't, that we haven't heard of, had to of mentioned it to someone that was living, @_@

No?

[GuRu Asaki]

Vegeta even words the mention of a SSJ, as if it weren't an actual SSJ, but more like a super being, or a monster, or something, he doesn't actually sound like he knows what a Super Saiyan is, when he says this... @_@

I mean it sounded like he was talking about a super powerful saiyan... Not a Saiyan who can transform... But maybe i'm wrong?


The one about a possible being named Yamoshi, or whatever in Dragon Ball Super...

That story is all over the place... It talks about non-cannon stuff such as Brolly, which actually makes no sense... It talks about a Warrior named Yamoshi who may or may not have been the Ledgend people were hoping for...

They also state that Yamoshi there was no proof he was actually who they said he was, he could even just be a spirit, nothing more... The topic got really weird, none of it made sense, they said he was pure unlike other Saiyans, but however, it even stated that theres no eveidence that he even transformed at all... ~_~

Also, in this mention of the Ledgend... They don't even say anything about SSJ, no in this mention, they specifically say God...

Which means, they are pretty much just making up material to go with their DB Super Series, & not actually trying to explain or tie in loose ends to past series... It's just a DB Super thing, that well doesn't sound very cannon to me, ~_~

The Movie about Bardock possibly becomming a SSJ, was nothing more then just a made up mess, to wow the fans... It had nothing to do with anything, except that it was more footage to sell on the market... & even they said it was non-cannon... ~_~



And most of all... None of any of these stories, mentions anything to do with Vegeta or even Freeza finding out info about this...


So unless there is more information? I am going to consider that, Vegeta gave Goku false hope... Which actually ends up being True... Or i'm ruling it as a plot whole... Haha...

[Ethiesia]

well you right about the king kia part but that information isn't consitent with the story because freiza wasn't thought of at that point in DBZ, so some fans made a theroy stating that the person ythat destroyed the planet with the asteriods was the SSG stated from shenron in super, which at that point was the guardian of earth that king kia said who destroyed thier first planet before the saiyans went to another planet and took it over and named it planet vegeta which freiza later destroys, also you are right that vegeta didn't really know about the legen but if ou remeber Guru knew about it and explained it to krillin in the ginyu force/namek saga, also freiza infact never knew much about the legend as he only heard it from vegeta and to sum it up from the abriged he though that it was: a stupid myth brought on by their filthy ancestors sharing it around a campfire like it was their own dung. also vegeta was forced to work with freiza but that was because king vegeta offered his son to him as a peace offering before freiza blew it up moments afterwards, as well as nappa and raditz who were off world doing some misson. also freiza blew up the planet because they were starting to rebel and were getting to powerful to handle. and i don't believe that vegeta thought it the SSJ was a powerup instead of a transfromation as it looked like he was imajining what one would look like countliss times which looked like a golden oozaru like from GT.

[Literally Me]

Broly is non canon. Therefore he technically never existed. It was an uknown - to us - saiyan, a millenia ago that transformed to a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan God. Frieza knew about the legend, and he was afraid of the saiyans, that's why he blew Planet Vegeta up. Don't get confused.

Also, it was the Saiyans and the Frieza Force that could not sense power levels during the Saiyan saga. The earthlings along with Goku and Piccolo were able to. Vegeta learned that it was possible during his fight on earth, and that's how he ended up sensing power levels in Namek.

[Ethiesia]

i do have to admit the lore is all over the place but im okay with the legend and that, since its not really a legend becasue there at least is 9 super saiyans counting unvierse 6 saiyans and future trunks. so you can say that it is a plot hole or vegeta made it up that your opion im not going to disrespect it but i still have an opion of my own that i believe just so you know. ;)

[Literally Me]

Because it's "a Super Saiyan bargain sale". There's a reason that fans were out with the pitchforks when Goten and kid Trunks were able to transform with no effort. Same with Universe 6 saiyans (except Cabba maybe).

[Rutabaga]

The Saiyans originally found home on Planet Sadala, though internal conflict lead to its destruction and forced the Saiyans to seek a new home world. This conflict was caused by a Saiyan called Yamoshi, who sought to defeat the evil Saiyans. Yamoshi was the original Super Saiyan, along with the initial Super Saiyan God, who died to the hands of the remaining evil Saiyans when his powers ran out. Thus he went down in legend as the "Legendary Super Saiyan".

Later on the Saiyans found, took over, and renamed Planet Plant (homeworld to the Tuffles/Tsufuru-jin) to Planet Vegeta. After some time the Saiyans were found by Frieza and became soldiers for him. Whilst Frieza ruled the Saiyans, he learned of the Saiyan's legend of the Super Saiyan. This made Frieza uneased, especially with the average Saiyan growing stronger and stronger, making him fear of a potential rebellion. During this time Beerus visited the Saiyans and found them unworthy to exist, though this was around the time when Beerus would fall asleep again and lazely told Frieza to do it. Frieza was more than happy to oblige, as he already had the intent to do so, and called all Saiyans to return home. During this time Bardock eventually did rebel against Frieza, which lead to his death and the quickened destruction of Planet Vegeta.

Broly doesn't exist in the canon universe and was made solely for the purpose of a movie villain. Furthermore what is a plot whole? Is it when the plot is whole, having no seperation and thus being complete?

[Ethiesia]

Shade/Abhor eredeti hozzászólása:

The Saiyans originally found home on Planet Sadala, though internal conflict lead to its destruction and forced the Saiyans to seek a new home world. This conflict was caused by a Saiyan called Yamoshi, who sought to defeat the evil Saiyans. Yamoshi was the original Super Saiyan, along with the initial Super Saiyan God, who died to the hands of the remaining evil Saiyans when his powers ran out. Thus he went down in legend as the "Legendary Super Saiyan".

Later on the Saiyans found, took over, and renamed Planet Plant (homeworld to the Tuffles/Tsufuru-jin) to Planet Vegeta. After some time the Saiyans were found by Frieza and became soldiers for him. Whilst Frieza ruled the Saiyans, he learned of the Saiyan's legend of the Super Saiyan. This made Frieza uneased, especially with the average Saiyan growing stronger and stronger, making him fear of a potential rebellion. During this time Beerus visited the Saiyans and found them unworthy to exist, though this was around the time when Beerus would fall asleep again and lazely told Frieza to do it. Frieza was more than happy to oblige, as he already had the intent to do so, and called all Saiyans to return home. During this time Bardock eventually did rebel against Frieza, which lead to his death and the quickened destruction of Planet Vegeta.

Broly doesn't exist in the canon universe and was made solely for the purpose of a movie villain. Furthermore what is a plot whole? Is it when the plot is whole, having no seperation and thus being complete?

this was what i was trying to explain but oh well, glad someone could explain it better than me, it doesn't matter anyway because now ever DB fan will focusing on ultra instinct and its origin story now, so have fun with that

[GuRu Asaki]

Oky, long story short...

There are many stories about power... Such as DBZ...

As in Ryu says: I don't seek power, I seek that of which is higher then power...

Anotherwards? Saiyans were kinda an agry race, it seems... well at least the warriors were...

Vegeta however, he believed that if he was a pure evil being that he could become an SSJ...

& he even kept believing even after SSJ that, if he continued being Pure Evil, that he could go

beyond powerful...

But he didn't know that, yes you need to be pure, but you actually needed to be pure good to achieve this...

Goten & Trunks are an example... They were probably the most powerful SSJ at their given time frame, they did it with probably no training, they were nothing but happy friends, & they did it extremely fast... Not only that, but supposedly, i'm guessing here, but I think they were almost SSJ2, because... When they became Gotenks, they were so powerful that they skipped SSJ2, & went straight to SSJ3...

I am not sure how they would have skipped the whole Muscle beefed up body thing in just an SSJ1 form? But maybe it has to do with them being Half Breeds? I dunno...

And the only reason they never achieved anything beyond this, was that Goten & Trunks, slacked off with their Training, & Combat... ~_~

Goten & Trunks could have been the most powerful Characters in all of the Universe...
they were only kids when they already became SSJ3 with a Fusion, & even without Fusion,
they were already SSJ1 almost SSJ2... Imagine what if they had continued Training & combat up to their Adult Hood? & this whole time, the kids were never an angry character... @_@

[GuRu Asaki]

Oh, I was trying to point out, that the Information, you guys are saying to do with this Yamoshi guy... The infomation was all over the place... Yes, it says that in the information... Given, stated that Shenron says these things to the Characters...

But what makes this information fishy of not being real? Is that the information, also talks about a decendant of Brolly, which cannot exist... On top of that, the information that the Shenron mentions, is also stating that, Yamoshi possibly was a God? But he was also possibly only just a meer SSJ, not actually a God, even more so, there was even the possibility he was only a meer Saiyan, nothing more... The Dragon stated he was different from other Saiyans, guessing that they meant he was Pure good? But that didn't mean he was this Legend, oO

The information, also talks about Time Travel, & all kinds of things, so I mean if you believe Yamoshi is this Legend, oky, then he is... I just think the video sounds fishy, haha...



Maybe there is more to this story? In a later DB Super Episode?

[Ethiesia]

acctually the beefed up ssj (which is reefered to as SSJ ascended) is inbetween super saiyan 1 and 2, sacrifices moevement for extra power and trunks was close at that time to unlocking SS2 but wasn't there. one thing i was sad about was there is no form between SS2 and SS3, i guess toriyama didn't want and extra filla involving goku getting SS3. also goten and trunks do have the potential to becoming more powerful than their parents. hell this was the plot for the fusion/innocent buu saga and but toriyama didn't like the charrecters and stopped using. think about have goten and trunks really done anything influential in the super series except in filla episodes.also i don't remeber their being any time travel to do with Yamoshi but maybe i haven't been looking in the right place

[Literally Me]

It was never stated that you need to be "Pure good" to transform to a Super Saiyan. "The power comes in response to a need, not a desire", anger and pain are the main ingredients to transform. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Future Trunks, Cabba.... they all transformed into a Super Saiyan because of both intense training and something that affected them hugely on a mental level (loss/self hatred). Goten's and kid Trunks' transformations made no sense at all, they barely trained, and there was nothing relevant to push em to transform, it was a bad attempt from Toriyama to make the kids relevant. Same with Caulifla, her transformation was a really bad attempt to make her relevant, since it also made 0 sense.

Broly is never mentioned on any of the canon anime/manga. I don't know what decendant you're talking about, Broly never existed.

You're pretty confused it seems, between Bardock movie and Broly movies and Anime in between, and you've made up a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a story. The movies are non canon, anything that is said or exists there, has never happened.