logistical nightmare

[BloodnGuts]

1st, I'm a noob. 2nd, I already love this game. 3rd, sorry for the long post...

I didn't move my FSBs until turn 8, and tried to skip intermediate stops and jump ahead: AGN tried to go from Koningsberg to Daugavpils in one go, skipping Kaunas. AGC tried to go from Warsaw to Vilinius, skipping Bialystok.

Now my trains are actually crisscrossing - AGN trains go from Kaunus to Vilnius and then up to Daugavpils, AGC trains go from Bialystok up to the Koningsberg line to Kaunus and then to Vilinus.

If you can't picture this, the trains are crossing into each AGs territory to get to their destinations. It's a mess of pink trains.

So my question is, should I have leapfrogged my way up, changing FSBs at all stops, is that why this happened?

Or was it because of the choices I made in my decisions? ie I chose to let Gerke rebuild his infrastructure, maybe this is too slow?

Any input would be nice, thx. I'm just trying to save myself the time of restarting to test things.

[kimhuerth]

Ok, i see. Your breakthrough tactics sound reasonable and i suppose you're right to keep your panzers directly at the front line in the future. I do the same and try to save my panzers for really important battles. Sometimes i mix them in for the initial attack if a hex is especially important for the whole plan. But otherwise they close the pockets or advance into a soft underbelly of an enemy formation.

As for the screenshots: May i ask what the aim of the shown breakthrough towards Kiev is? Please be careful, since the Hungarian calvary unit may isn't the most confidence-inspiring flank protection.

Reagrding the first screenshot: Have you considered attaking the already weakened 170th Soviet (stack) from three sides and advancing through the woods towards Kiev, while some units of the 1st panzer army close the pocket from the south, effectively sacking the stacks with 104th Soviet panzer and 117th Soviet? That way you (may) could attack a weaker link in the chain and encircle some enemy stacks and at the same time create a bridgehead towards Kiev.

Ouch, i still feel bad for my ill thought through opinion, which *budd* corrected. Please accept my apologies.

[BloodnGuts]

First of all don't apologize, I was the one who threw up a screen shot and said I was restarting, plus you've been a great help and it's been fun to able to talk the game thru - no one I know plays games like this.

Also ty for your help today, I've been full of questions, and ty for the critique of my shots above.

So the purpose of the breakthrough was partly to test the idea I had just last night, and also to break what has been a long stalemate in the south - it's already August 17th, 1941 (turn 16), and I've made little progress down there.

I am hoping that by splitting the AI's defense in two something will open up - either the road to Kiev, as you mentioned, or the opportunity to create a pocket to the south by linking up with 11th Army. Anything would be better, I thought, than staying where I was.

So it was one part experiment, two parts desperation :-) Hope I don't sound defensive, it was great reading your reaction, just wanted to explain my thinking.

It was a tank heavy operation with a PzG that has already been mauled. My only hope is the AI somehow slips up in reacting to the break. And really, thx again :-)

[kimhuerth]

You're welcome :) Doesn't sound defensive at all. Did you already play the next turn? How did it play out? As far as i know the AI, it will shuffle around its titles/units and end up creating a line around your breakthrough (just a stab in the dark).

Another question: When and how did you start wargaming? How come you're interested? Do you have any favorite games?

[BloodnGuts]

Just sitting down to play now, or soon, so no news yet. First war game for me was the board game Axis and Allies. A bunch of us played it back when I was in university in the early 90s - I'm an old guy.

It's a fairly basic game, but we got really into it and elevated it to an art form, I remember making all kinds of plans, spent a ton of time, haha. I wanted to try Harpoon or a more complex game but no one was into it.

After my uni days I had no live opponents so I got hooked on Allied General, a title in the old Panzer General series. I played a ton of it on my old PS 1 back in the day.

After that I struggled to find a war game for myself. Tried Hasbro's offical Axis and Allies PC game but the AI was silly bad, esp for a pro like me. But then I must confess I tried a hex and tile game like DC:B - wait, there aren't any games like DC:B! It's the best! Anyways it was called Korsun Pocket, but I wasn't into youtube or forums and found it hard to make sense of it on my own, and gave up.

Same thing for many years, tried war games here and there, either way too easy or I felt I needed a little instruction. Then this summer I started a tablet WW2 game but it was all pay to play - you needed credits even to entrench units, etc. It was otherwise a cool game, but again, left me wanting more.

Then I found Steam! I logged a lot of hours in Order of Battle: World War 2 - hope the devs don't mind me mentioning it here - and loved it. But I started browsing on steam and drooling over so many games - and then found DC:B. I kept going back to watch the game trailer, eventually took the plunge, and here I am, totally happy to have found it :-)

As to why I don't know, but always been interested in history in general, and fascinated by the ACW as well as WWII, esp the eastern front, but never learned much about it. School mostly focused on Western Front.

How bout you? But don't feel pressured to answer with an essay like this, haha.

[kimhuerth]

Haha, we must be of the same age. I'll write more, but for starters: We played Axis & Allies as well back in the days and made it "an art". As we (a friend of mine and i) never owned an actual copy and had to borough it every from someone to be able to play it. Back then we had no internet and it wasn't easy to get a game copy in Germany with such a "touchy" theme. Through play and analysis we got fairly decent later on, i suppose. One day an unknown contender appeared, a true and unbeaten master of A&A, as some others stated. Fair enough, we challenged him. Long story short - we beat him on turn 4 (or so). He wouldn't believe it and wanted a replay. He lost that one too, on turn 6 or so. Gentleman as he was, he quit playing and gave us his complete A&A game. My friend still has it and holds it dear.

Ah, and later on i got A&A on PC as well. Beat it on the first playthrough on "ultra hard" or the like and never touched it again afterwards. I remember even trying some tricks on the AI we used to do in the boardgame.

[BloodnGuts]

That's too funny about A&A, sounds just like me. As for the PC game I tried so hard to make it challenging, got so I would play the allies and not use the United States at all, and still win, thoguh it took longer.

There's an android version on google play store. Well, it's an A&A rip off anyways, called '1941.' Still too easy but better than the old hasbro version. I played it a lot a while back, but mostly cuz it brought back good memories.

[kimhuerth]

Ah, thanks for the idea. Unfortunately, i don't own any device with Android. But i'll check it out! Some time ago i saw some other Android version of a super old fantasy board game, "Atlantis". Had a swivel, electrical black tower in the middle of the board which would compute your losses and play tunes for events.

As for A&A: Thinking of it, i recall that i later played "Fortress America" (spin-off of A&A?) once. Do you know that one? There are some extensions like the Pacific war (i guess) for A&A. Did you play those? Being influenced from Dungeon & Dragons at some point we created special rules for A&A, like unforseen events (you had to roll a 20-sided dice) and more.

So, as you see i mainly have a board game background and started playing Avalon Hill games: Russian Campaign, Russian Front, Squad Leader (among many others, not all WWII). At the time i felt ready for Fire in the East (leviathan of a game) and Advanced Squad Leader (quite commplicated, simulation style), my friend's interest faded and time became an issue so i never got really into them.

[BloodnGuts]

Yeah, I hear a lot about the Avalon Hill games, people speak highly of them, never had the pleasure myself.

I know they made the Pacific War and I think Normandy for A&A, but I never heard of Fortress America myself. I haven't tried these but I might one day, I have a total of six little nephews who will soon - well, couple more years I suppose - be ready for A&A, haha. They already ask if they can "play with the army men" and I get down my A&A box, but I will eventually introduce them to the real game :-)

Someone made a bootleg sort of version of A&A called Advanced Axis & Allies with new rules and a bigger map, before Hasbro or somebody shut him down for copyright stuff. I heard of it but never saw it, but my one friend did. We adopted some of the rules into regular A&A, like you guys we added stuff, like 2-hit battle ships and paratroopers that could be dropped by bombers.

[BloodnGuts]

I have a little update. It's September 14 (Turn 23), by far the farthest I've ever gone. I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose but I think it's worth the experience to keep going. Plus I'm having a lot of fun.

On the operational side, my relationships are all really great - except Gercke and Wagner, and this has side effects. But my attitude is you can't please everyone. Also, I've done a lot of winter prep, and got some really good rolls when I needed them.

Casualties, tho, are really low for the Soviets and quite high for the Germans. My front line is a winding river, and I don't think I've conquered near enuf territory. But there are two bright spots

I'm occupying Narva, and Leningrad is still Hitler's 1st priority. Only conscripts ahead, and a lot of them, and 4th PzG badly needs a refit, so a breakthrough in the forest will be tough.

There's a red sea between me and Moscow, and Rostov might as well be on the moon it's so far away. However, I have completely cut off the Pripyat Marshes. I count 55 divs and 1 HQ pocketed, but eliminating them will take forever. I guess it feels good tho, so here's a screen shot:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=755586654

[kimhuerth]

Now, that's what i call a pocket! Great stuff! Please post some more screenies and let us know how it played out.

Haven't had time and the required leisure to play DCB so i cannot report anything new so far.

[BloodnGuts]

Closed my Pripyat pocket, bagged 50-ish divs and 5 HQs. Made 8 PPs for each HQ, good deal.

AGN: 18th Army has Talinn surrounded but doesn't have the APs to take the city. 1st PzG still holding Narva but no progress. Further south 16th Army is in danger of being over run.

AGC: Winding front line. 3rd PzG is trying to make a move near Polotsk. 2nd PzG will try something after their refit, supported by 4th Army.

AGS: 1st PzG will probably attack south to Kiev after their refit, along with infantry.

I'm going to fight on but things look grim. Rasputitsa is coming, my boys are fatigued, and Hitler just held a conference and changed priorites - Rostov is now #1, my worst theatre I think, arrrrgh!!

[kimhuerth]

Thanks for the update!

What are the casulaties atm? The front status reminds me of my own games. Hope you figure out an elegant solution!

[BloodnGuts]

heya Kimhuerth,

You still out there playing? Any luck? How about an update?

I've been very busy, or tired from being busy, and haven't played in a week :-( Also I quit smoking - day six today - so I've been very restless.

I'm really missing it and looking forward to this weekend to get back to playing. I'll let you know if I can score any successes.

[kimhuerth]

Hi dogrady!

Happy to hear from you. Your lines sum up my life ... i did not have the time nor the energy to proceed but i haven't thrown in the towel yet. Maybe there will be some leisure time on Sunday.

Great you quit smoking! Step by step. Soon one week, then two aso.

[kimhuerth]

Hi all!

If you like, have a look at a current letsplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkTKlp4gL6g&list=PLev0Msy6nByQKJHfjELCQRY4curCh5CbU