To those shooting down unarmed ships outside safe zone:

[Starfire273]

Please, enlighten me: what do you gain from shooting up unarmed ships, some of them entering the area for teh first time?

Are you one of those who think its funny to basically make people either wanna quit or have them repeat hours of grind? Just because they don't know as much as you do about the game and / or aren't interested in combat?

I'm still quite new, had to venture outside the safe zone to look for Aegisium. Had forgotten to turn off my transponder.... got shot down within 5 minutes. Replayed part of the tutorial, got a new ship, actually managed to find my old one and tried for over half an hour to fix it, somehow. Someone else came in, shot me down again.
Now I have to wait for a new free starter ship (cooldown) while my first two ships are unreachable derelicts.

Do you.... "brave" PvP players even realise what you are doing by shooting anything that moves? You actively discourage players to stay with this game. How about not being a jerk and let players mine in peace?

And don't come in here with the "dont wanna die, dont leave safe zone" crap. You know full well that you cant even craft windows without certain ores, let alone some slightly (SLIGHTLY) advanced tech so you don't have to pick apart every single asteroid by hand.

I will give it another try to get my my stuff back... after that... I don't know. But really, tell me, what is there to gain from slaughtering others? As far as I know, little to nothing at the moment, apart from some perverted pleasure.

[Hayhaka]

Messaggio originale di Trosho:

You wanna go all the way back? Start with how you were calling PvP'ers carebears for PvP'ing in a PvP game.

I remember that and it was funny. They called PvPers carebears after several messages from the gankers calling anyone who would like changes a carebear. They just threw it right back at the anti-change folks.

[starkmaddness]

Messaggio originale di Trosho:

Messaggio originale di starkmaddness:

So your counter is that you sent several messages before you devolved into personal attacks? Not sure that is the defense you think it is.

Ok dude play dumb. You're not gonna get what you want anyway. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for your juicy loot. ^_^

You can have my loot, I'll even help you load it onto your ship. One high velocity projectile at a time.

[Hayhaka]

Messaggio originale di Fembot:

Starbase is not EVE. Unless I herd wrong if you blockade the gate you get banned. They are trying to make a less toxic game. These things will get balanced be patient.

Does it seem to anyone else that most EVE and other PVP players all repeat the same lines like its a written script ? As i look over this post its just like every other game where they cant kill anyone they want. Even in New world they are in chat there cursing the players that wont flag for PVP, same thing care bear this and that.

Yes, I pointed that out too. I'm one of the people the PvPers get their panties in a twist over because I don't flag for PvP. They are a minority and get mad because the surveys of players showed they are a small minority resulting in the PvP getting changed to the flag system. What was funny last time I created a new character was in finishing the beach area someone was trying to get me to duel and I wouldn't. So they jumped in the way when I was attacked by mobs and was defending myself. They must have sent a request to duel so that my defending would accept it. All I knew was they fell down while I was fighting and I killed all the mobs. When I got to the first town I got the achievement for going to the first town and discovered I already had an achievement before that. So, I looked and it said I had fought my first duel and won. I guess it was when they tried to force a duel on me in the middle of mobs. They got a loss out of the deal on their stats.

[Sliperoni]

The safe zone has warnings and precautions that stop you before you leave, Its like going up to a piece on land that has a sign that says "minefield" you have been warned and know the risk of the situation, if you go into that field and get your legs blown off, you have no one or anything else to blame but yourself.

[DivineEvil]

- This is sandbox. You can do what you want as long as it is within the rules of the sandbox. Complaining about it characterizes you more than it characterizes them.

- People who have fun firing at someone and breaking their stuff do not need any other reason to do so. It's something you're looking for, not them.

- You do not need to know much to defend yourself. This is free-PvP game with a massive space for you to start off without the risk. This is the only thing you need to know, but most of all, understand.

You also do not need to earn a lot to afford it. Just as someone have crafted or bought a gun, so can you. Going out of safe zone with nothing to defend yourself and paying no attention to the surroundings is simply naive, regardless of what excuses you would throw at it.

- Ores for more advanced crafting can be bought in exchange for common ores. If you are willing to risk everything you take outside of the safe zone to get those ores for free, be prepared for the dangers or embrace the risk at your own peril. Take the responsibility for your decisions, and don't lay it at the feet of people, who play the game as they see fit.

[Tyr]

It's a game, you don't decide how others player it and they don't need to justify what they find fun.

Playing a pirate or marauder is fun in many games. However people playing games tend to have a ton of ego. So if a player says 'Stop prepare to be boarded, drop your loot" etc, almost all players will just book it, and be damned if they'll have their ego hurt by someone raiding them etc.

So it's better to just open fire, as no one is going to play along. Anything else is just giving people a bigger chance to run.

You can get all the ores from the market place, and sell your safe zone ores. So you're not prevented from anything, what you have here is risk vs reward. Reward is a better return on materials by mining it directly, risk is you'll get popped.

For reference, I don't have weapons yet, and spend most of my time in the ship editor, but I also know what to expect when I leave the safe zone.

[Kikinaak]

So, lemme make sure I've got the argument from the pvp crowd straight.

You enter the pvp zone thinking you are special, that you can make all the mistakes people warn you about, that the rules dont apply to you, and that you can survive without learning from those who have gone before and playing the game the way it was designed? You have zero excuse or cause to complain and be taken seriously when you die and lose your stuff. Sounds fair to the pvpers? OK.

Commercial game development is a pvp system. The competition is for players attention, support, and money. Players saw the way the game was heading, and gave warning after warning. Warnings were ignored and threads were locked. The devs were told the game needed builders and workers to survive, not just shooters and looters. They refused to include and accommodate them, only marginalize and restrict them by gating the materials they need behind pvp. So now the game is losing players and dying. Also fair, and everyone saw it coming.

[Keklor]

Messaggio originale di Kikinaak:

So, lemme make sure I've got the argument from the pvp crowd straight.

You enter the pvp zone thinking you are special, that you can make all the mistakes people warn you about, that the rules dont apply to you, and that you can survive without learning from those who have gone before and playing the game the way it was designed? You have zero excuse or cause to complain and be taken seriously when you die and lose your stuff. Sounds fair to the pvpers? OK.

Commercial game development is a pvp system. The competition is for players attention, support, and money. Players saw the way the game was heading, and gave warning after warning. Warnings were ignored and threads were locked. The devs were told the game needed builders and workers to survive, not just shooters and looters. They refused to include and accommodate them, only marginalize and restrict them by gating the materials they need behind pvp. So now the game is losing players and dying. Also fair, and everyone saw it coming.

I'll say it for a third time on this thread: If you're having problems with PVP, join a group. Safety in numbers. I've been out of the Safe Zone five times and the worst that happened to me was I hit an asteroid and ruined the ship lol.

[Hayhaka]

Messaggio originale di Kikinaak:

So, lemme make sure I've got the argument from the pvp crowd straight.

You enter the pvp zone thinking you are special, that you can make all the mistakes people warn you about, that the rules dont apply to you, and that you can survive without learning from those who have gone before and playing the game the way it was designed? You have zero excuse or cause to complain and be taken seriously when you die and lose your stuff. Sounds fair to the pvpers? OK.

Commercial game development is a pvp system. The competition is for players attention, support, and money. Players saw the way the game was heading, and gave warning after warning. Warnings were ignored and threads were locked. The devs were told the game needed builders and workers to survive, not just shooters and looters. They refused to include and accommodate them, only marginalize and restrict them by gating the materials they need behind pvp. So now the game is losing players and dying. Also fair, and everyone saw it coming.

Bingo! The game industry is hardcore PvP as there are limited players to go around and tons of games. What could have been a special game and huge hit has been driving players away with the PvP player's help. Many of us are leaving bad reviews as a result which cuts down on new players later making the mistake of getting this cool building game. It needs drastic changes or it dies. PvP players refuse any and all suggestions to help keep the game alive.

[Soulstinger]

My god the self righteous cry baby attitudes. At this point I hope half of you DO quit.

Again; ive never shot anyone in this game so far.

[Rex]

i mean its simple science go to pvp areas expect pvp ?

[Drakhos]

I'll just quote what someone said in an other post :

"The populations of beta and closed access development cannot and should not be considered representative of a post launch environment. While beta players 'tend' to be more focused on the development, bug squashing, etc. Post launch a completely new breed of players will make their way onto servers with only one thought, absolutely trashing every other player they come into contact with. Guilds will form quickly for those looking to outnumber and dominate in any way they can. I know developers and friendly beta testers alike like to think that everything is going to go according to plan post launch but as a veteran of over 20 years of PvP games I can tell you cannot predict nor prepare for the levels of ganking, cheating, and exploiting that will occur the moment this game goes live. Unless you are a player that is mentally prepared for that war zone I honestly would not suggest buying this game under some guise of hey, there will be happy safe spots so long as you stay in the front yard of the starter base. Ask EvE Online's High Sec just how much blood does it have in its ledger over the last 10+ years. Death will find a way. "

Just this. And I just want to add one thing, most of these players are not interested to fight other pvp players. They are not interested in a balanced battle. They want to fight the coop players, those who doesn't want to fight. What they want is to play being sure at 100% to destroy their target. And a game in which you can just form unlimited alliances to outnumber people, in which the safe zones don't include all the ressources, in which you have no protection against griefing, no protection when you're offline, well those players will have a good time... until they make coop players leave because without easy targets they will leave too. It happened in so many similar games...

[Tyr]

Messaggio originale di Hayhaka:

Bingo! The game industry is hardcore PvP as there are limited players to go around and tons of games. What could have been a special game and huge hit has been driving players away with the PvP player's help. Many of us are leaving bad reviews as a result which cuts down on new players later making the mistake of getting this cool building game. It needs drastic changes or it dies. PvP players refuse any and all suggestions to help keep the game alive.

Sorry I don't subscribe to generation candy crush with flashy rewards saying how good you are and patting you on the back.

I'm not even out there pvping yet, I expect I'll lose my first ship to someone quite easily as I learn. But holy crap entitlement special snow flake crew. "This is the dangerous area with high risk but reward" and here you are "I'm special, I should just get all good stuff and never have any consequences, and do whatever I want."

You know what? There is a perfectly great game with a HUGE safe area where you can build stations and all sorts of things. People sell the higher minerals all the time there at the stations, you can build safely, buy safely and do everything.

There's one part of the game for PVP players and those who like risk reward systems, it's not all for just you, you can leave that part alone if you don't like it. I don't get why someone against pvp should be allowed to demand that they get to be safe from pvp, and come get the rewards we get for being at risk for PVP.

[Trosho]

If this game were to lose it's PvP and just cater to non-PvP it would lose all of it's uniqueness. You lost something big whoop build a new ship this keeps an economy going, miners will make money selling ore and builders make money from their builds. If there was no loss then the economy would grind to a halt. This would just end up like every other survival crafting game only this time you cant restart the server or fill it with mods to change the experience. There is also plenty of safezone space to play and build in if you don't want to PvP. If you want those ores you can't get then just buy them. It's simply risk vs reward and miners that risk getting blown up should get a benefit.

This would also cause the game to lose potential jobs and creativity of gameplay. People can come together and make Mercenary companies, but if there's no threat there can't be Mercenaries. Of course there wouldn't be pirates either so that's 2 types of gameplay gone right there. There also wouldn't be any need to group up and if no one groups up in an MMO then whats the point?

They've specifically made a huge safezone to cater to non-PvP'ers, but apparently it's not enough for yall? I don't understand why you think you deserve to have everything and everyone else be damned. It's an MMO and not everyone wants to hit rocks or build. This game is about freedom and taking away PvP would lose so much of that freedom.

[Kikinaak]

Messaggio originale di Tyr:

Messaggio originale di Hayhaka:

Bingo! The game industry is hardcore PvP as there are limited players to go around and tons of games. What could have been a special game and huge hit has been driving players away with the PvP player's help. Many of us are leaving bad reviews as a result which cuts down on new players later making the mistake of getting this cool building game. It needs drastic changes or it dies. PvP players refuse any and all suggestions to help keep the game alive.

Sorry I don't subscribe to generation candy crush with flashy rewards saying how good you are and patting you on the back.

And here we have the attitude that drives off the players who would sustain the game. The insults and dismissal and general immaturity. This kind of player has interest in neither a fair fight nor a reasonable discussion, because they would be demolished in either one. For instance...

I'm not even out there pvping yet, I expect I'll lose my first ship to someone quite easily as I learn. But holy crap entitlement special snow flake crew. "This is the dangerous area with high risk but reward" and here you are "I'm special, I should just get all good stuff and never have any consequences, and do whatever I want."

No. "High risk, high reward" is a matter of game balance, which is thrown entirely out the window once you allow players in general, and this kind of player in particular, to determine either side of this equation. For instance, patrolling just outside the boundary in a battleship waiting for unarmed miners to come through and gank. This argument is self defeating even examined logically, and utterly destroyed once you put it into context of whats actually happening in the game.

You know what? There is a perfectly great game with a HUGE safe area where you can build stations and all sorts of things. People sell the higher minerals all the time there at the stations, you can build safely, buy safely and do everything.

There's one part of the game for PVP players and those who like risk reward systems, it's not all for just you, you can leave that part alone if you don't like it. I don't get why someone against pvp should be allowed to demand that they get to be safe from pvp, and come get the rewards we get for being at risk for PVP.

No. Again with the demonstrably false argument of risk vs reward, but suggesting the nonpvpers could opt to "leave that part alone" again doesnt hold up under scrutiny when the materials they need to craft with are gated behind pvp, they are either forced to engage in pvp or be left at the mercy of the market controlled by those who do, and who will price gouge them to make nonpvp unsustainable. Which is exactly how those playing the meta pvp (aka troll) game want it.

Drakhos post is the final nail in the coffin. If the game isnt even fully launched yet and its a pvp clusterfondle driving off the players it actually needs, it has absolutely zero chance once it goes "live" and draws in hordes more who will tear it apart. And in time honored pvp tradition, we are going to have zero sympathy for yet another stubborn dev team refusing to listen and blowing their entire leg clean off, and hold it up as another example of what not to do with a sandbox mmo if you want to survive in this market.

And as long as I'm already shredding the whole "risk vs reward" bullshout, lets take a closer look at it, and I'll even be sporting enough to look at it at face value...

What is the risk? Of being attacked by another player, most of whom will be looking for the easiest mark and to skew the odds as far against their target as possible. Such is the nature of open world pvp.

What is the reward? Being able to explore and mine resources, which is a requirement to be able to build things. When a requirement for one playstyle is a reward for engaging in another, its not a reward, its a carrot and stick, and yes, its forcing one to engage in a style they dont want. Thats not inclusive, and its nothing "set aside" for the nonpvpers.

Let me spin it another way. Lets say there was a contained pvp arena, but passes to enter this arena and fight cost money you had to earn through mining or doing trade runs. Now lets throw in other players being able to beat you to the market and suddenly your great sale price tanks, or that other players could sabotage your mining equipment and you had no way to avoid them? How many pvpers would stick around for that? Not many. Which is exactly why the nonpvpers are ditching this game like the sinking ship it is and warning others to stay far away and leaving it to the toxics who will run it into the ground, then leave.