DARK QUEST 2 - Extended Feedback

[✘ ENGiNE.]

DARK QUEST 2 - Extended Feedback by ✘ ENGiNE.

Dear Brain Seal Entertainment,

I've been asked to give some feedback on how to improve on some negative points I've mentioned in my previous Feedback. Thanks for being so open minded :) I'm posting this here in case someone else wants to contribute.
Well, first and foremost I'm neither a game dev nor do I have any expertise in that profession - and everything I'm about to say is nothing more than my 2 cents. I'm not good atwrapping things up efficiently, so please forgive me for an overuse of elaboration.

1. Things I like about the game

People always tend to take working systems for granted. But I don't. So I've got to mention that DARK QUEST 2 has impressed me pretty much. From the lovely artwork to the easy navigation through the menues and the quick-to-grasp gameplay - I love it. The foundation of the game and the mechanics are solid (in my opinion) and help to deliver a fun experience.
I've never seen such an interesting translation from board game to a videogame - and it holds up. There are heaps of themes that stay true to the origin (Hero Quest) - from the story (̶m̶̶o̶̶r̶̶c̶̶a̶̶r̶ the evil sorcerer has to be stopped by a bunch of heroes in an epic series of dungeon quests) to the board-gamey feeling of a turn based RPG. The combats are incredible fun - the pacing and the actions are on point. I think you guys know how to handle the stretch between a 1 to 1 copy and creative freedom.
Oh, and huge kudos to the atmosphere: The overall design of the game and the soundtrack carry the vibe of a medieval fantasy setting very efficiently and lets the player dive right into the heart of the atmosphere. (Excellent job!)
And just a few words that add a lot: COOP! Built-in editor! Awesome support!


2. Things I think should get a refinment

Now we get to the meat. I'm going to briefly adress the points that hold back DARK QUEST 2 and make it a good game rather than a great one and suggest some ideas.

2.1 REPLAYABILITY / LONG TERM EXPERIENCE (Biggest issue)

In my opinion is DARK QUEST 2 a RPG with board game features. And that's where it's lacking of long term motivation: The RPG elements. At the core, RPG elements (like a character progression system) add a lot to the long term experience component. DARK QUEST 2 has skill trees, inventory and whatnot - But it's far to easy to max out your character. It took me roughly 2 hours to cap my dwarf character. And considering I'm mostly playing coop with a friend and I'm tied to play one character only, I'm forced to switch characters to make the progress going on. Otherwise I'm left with the feeling of "What now?". For me it felt like after merely 2 hours I've beaten the game without even having finished the campagne. From that point on the RPG elements fall flat. And it didn't really feel like I've accomplished something either, because the build up for the reward was far to easy. Playing 1 map 7 times and you're done. So how can this be improved?
Character progression can add a long term strategic component to the game. There are 2 ways to do that. You can expand on what you have and add more skills and even more powerfull items to the game, risking to blowing up the skill roof and throwing balancing overboard. Or you can make it harder for the player to make progress in the game; making it even more difficult to acquire skills and abilites and buy new items.
In the case of DARK QUEST 2, I'd go with the latter. It makes it far more rewarding if the progression comes with a price. Thus grinding makes more sense to control the speed of play to keep players from blazing through all your content faster than you can release more.
SUGGESTIONS:
- Skinner Boxing with Blue Potions or limit them to max 1 per map.
- Step up the costs of skills and abilities (ie: make the max skill double priced)
- Buff existing items (but keep the price)
- Implement new items (that have the same values as the already existing ones)
- Maybe epic items that drop very rarely at random
- Increase the maximum number of items held by a hero from 2 to 3 (or even 4)
- Maybe expand the skill tree
- Maybe skill tree choices - making not all available ("Do I want a tank dwarf or does he make more sense a supporting role?")

This will help to slow down the process of progression but make the reward feel even more rewarding! And it still stays somewhat true to Hero Quest.

2.2 CHARACTER CREATION

I'm not asking for a character creation page, but one of the things that make RPGs so adorable is the option to personalize your character. At the moment, you grind a map 7 times to give him all the skills, throw some items at him that makes sense and viola. That's it. Same character everytime you play through. Personalizing your character through game mechanics (ie: a unique skill tree) or design (ie: Make him look different when he's getting stronger) is missing right now.
Suggestions:
- Being able to name your character will do :D
- Optional cosmetics (See 3.2)

A player connects more with an individual character.

2.3 BALANCING

[I'm going to adress this in a later post.]

2.4 ELF IS MISSING

Hero Quest had him.

2.5 MINOR THINGS I'VE CAME ACROSS

- With the camera angle locked in this kind of isometric perspective I'm confronted with a dilemma every once in a while: Clicking on something that is just behind my character can become quite a tedious task! Suggestion: Transparency when hovering over the character with the mouse.

- COOP only: Sometimes it's not obvious who's turn it is - like when a player skipped his turn in favor for someone else or has finished his turn (Sure, after the player ends his turn the character goes grey. But you're not focusing on your mates character, so this information slips very often). Happened quite frequently that me and my friend were staring at our screens, waiting for the other to do something before realising "Oh hey! It's my turn!". Suggestions: Something simple like a sound or a camera move towards the character would do the trick.

- After a room has been cleared by all the monsters, the movement should be unlimited. It's kinda annoying to have this clicking madness at the end of a fight or when you have to walk back half the map just because you've missed a room/saved it for later. Especially in coop.

3. RANDOM IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE

Here's just a random collection of ideas that came to my mind while playing DARK QUEST 2:

3.1 PvP
Arena mode or something. Being able to battle other players and their parties with your own in a chess kinda way. Highscore board and ranking. But this would only make sense if the character progression system would be more versatile.

3.2 COSMETICS
Microtransactions that give the dedicated player the opportunity to costumize the aesthetics of the game. People love to pay money for skins/textures (exhibit A: Counter Strike - Global Offensive... Or Card-Hunter). I bet it's a work your graphic designer would love to do and the costs of making and implementing them would pay themselves.

3.3 SKILLS AND ABILITIES
Just a couple of skills to let every hero have a maximum of 9 available skills and abilities.

Barbarian:
- Charge! (Ability)
Move up to 1/2/3 squares in a straight line and attack an enemy. The enemy gets stunned for 1 turn.
- Whirlwind Spin (Ability)
Attack every adjacent enemy with 2/3/4. Rest 1 turn.

Wizard:
-Meditation (Ability)
Refresh one ability and rest for 2/1/0 turns.

Dwarf:
- Toughness (Skill)
During combat, the dwarfs fate is increased by 20%/40%/60%.

Knight:
- Reactivation (Ability)
A random ability of a targeted hero within 1/2/3 squares reach gets refreshed.
- Presence (Skill)
The accuracy of all heroes within 1/2/3 squares increases by 15%.
or
- Holy Aura (Skill)
The fate of all heroes within 1/2/3 squares increases by 15%.

Dark Monk:
- Otherworldly Gifted (Skill)
Every melee damage inflicted to the Dark Monk is calculated 1/2/3 rounds after the attack.
or
- Morbid Ritual (Ability)
Increases the Dark Monks lifepoints to 6/6 and his attack +2 for the duration of 1/2/3 turns. After that he's stunned for one turn and his lifepoints are reduced back to 1/3.

Archer:
- Bullseye! (Ability)
Accuracy and range is doubled for the next 1/2/3 rounds.
- Tanning (Ability)
Make 2 magic shields out of 3/2/1 collected enemie corpses.



Well. That's it for now. Thanks for taking your time. I hope this was somewhat helpfull. If you agree/disagree with anything I just said, let me know in the comments.

Warm regards,
✘ ENGiNE.

[Brain Seal Entertainment]

It is funny about the quests, we removed replayability and then some fun went away because some people liked to grind a little to get stronger before a difficult a quest. Then we added back and some people seem to grind the same dungeon over and over to get max skills and then go on to the more difficult quests.

We are going to add some things to make it more challenging. For each time you visit the dungeon, monsters will grow stronger and stronger, perhaps some random traps and even an extra monster here and there... some form of mini-random changes. Maybe even some existing items could sometimes no longer be there?

Also we have been thinking this for awhile is to lock some skills until a certain amount of quests has been completed. For example the Wizard firewall could required 4 quests completed before you can unlock it. Another thought regarding this is 4 quests completed with this hero? or 4 quests completed all together by the player?


Regarding character creation we have something planned where you can select one of the 6 heroes to be "YOU" and start the game with that hero instead of the barbarian-wizard duo.


we are going to experiment a little with the cosmetics when we get some time, see how easy it is to add different looks that you can perhaps buy at the merchant or just customize the hero right from the begining.


Your other points have been considered as well, i think we need a few more skills for heroes to perhaps max all to 9. Having some skills to decide whether +1 attack or +1 defence sounds like a good idea but equipment was designed to fill that role.

[Summerland]

Hi guys! I've been playing about 9 hours, just grinding and having fun. Loving the game, and put together my own suggestion list.

1. Having trouble moving the archer, she actually doesn't move at all in any mission for me.

2. Dwarf seems a bit under powered, though I'll try leveling him more he doesn't seem to have many strong offensive abilities.

3. Some items not giving a bonus. Unless it has something to do with Defence. My barbarian was using a +1 attack sword (Vanquish) I think. And I still do 1 damage to some monsters.

But if its a Defense thing there should be some info on that. If when we hover over stats if it there could be a write up on how they work.

4. Enviroment getting in the way: Sometimes the background or even players or monsters are in the way of being able to see the ground to place a spell/ability on the ground. If it might be possible to rotate the view. I guess that would probably make it 3D and a nightmare to adjust though.

5. Traps; they make things interesting, but sometimes they are clusters in groups of 3 and in areas you have to go to and no way around them. So if you have no class with it you just have to take the damage. Taking away freedom to choose. Maybe a 60-70% change of taking damage instead.

6. One reviewer mentioned a rare/legendary item find. Think how excitiing it would be to go into a chest or see behind a group of monsters some gold, a dead hero and this legendary gleaming weapon that has a decent boost. Random stats, random from a selection of a few types.

7. The Potion Lady mentions buy 1 get 1 free but doesn't mention 'what conditions'. And it doesn't work. Is this something later to be brought into game?


I love the spell effects, the music, the atmosphere is incredible! The spells/abilities are fun to use and I love the crafting system. I think the weapons we make could use a boost on some of them though. I'd love to see keys on the floor that unlock certain doors in other rooms.

Maybe a few new monsters like Trolls, ogres, giants, slimes, giant frogs or spiders or even a dragon. I know you guys got your hands full. I look forward to whatever you produce. I for one will support any DLC or expansions! I'm hooked!

[Brain Seal Entertainment]

1. This is getting patched now, there is a bug with the bows.

2. dwarf will see some improvements very soon

3. the sword of vanquish will add +1 damage to every attack. The barbarian by default has an attack of 3 which means he will do 0-3 damage with 0 being a miss. A sword of vanquish will do 1 + 0-3 damage.

An attack of 3 and accurancy of 60% means you have:
60% to score a hit + 60% to score a hit + 60% to score a hit = total hits
each hit counts as 1 damage. If you score no hits on your attack you will miss.

4. This has been reported many times, we are going to add some collapsed rendering view when pressing some hotkey to help with clicking around.

5. The traps that block the way have been designed as such.

6. There are some rare/legendary items called artifacts. There are only 3 now in the game but we are working on it. The crossbow and the book of alludan and the main 2 artifacts you can find in the game and go to the backpack.
Is this system flawed? Should it improve? let us know

7. It was originally written as a joke... :D

Thanks!

[Hellbishop]

Originally posted by Brain Seal Entertainment:

It is funny about the quests, we removed replayability and then some fun went away because some people liked to grind a little to get stronger before a difficult a quest. Then we added back and some people seem to grind the same dungeon over and over to get max skills and then go on to the more difficult quests.

We are going to add some things to make it more challenging. For each time you visit the dungeon, monsters will grow stronger and stronger, perhaps some random traps and even an extra monster here and there... some form of mini-random changes. Maybe even some existing items could sometimes no longer be there?

Also we have been thinking this for awhile is to lock some skills until a certain amount of quests has been completed. For example the Wizard firewall could required 4 quests completed before you can unlock it. Another thought regarding this is 4 quests completed with this hero? or 4 quests completed all together by the player?


Regarding character creation we have something planned where you can select one of the 6 heroes to be "YOU" and start the game with that hero instead of the barbarian-wizard duo.


we are going to experiment a little with the cosmetics when we get some time, see how easy it is to add different looks that you can perhaps buy at the merchant or just customize the hero right from the begining.

Great game. I never played the original tabletop rpg so to be able to play such a true to the original version on pc is awesome to say the least :D

On the grinding and leveling i have seen in GRIM DAWN which is more a DIABLO style game they have slowed the level progression to almost zero in areas the player has already gained many levels in so for them to progress they have to continue to other areas with more powerful enemies and continue the quest line. GRIM DAWN still keeps those areas interesting by having plenty of variety of old and new loot to use, upgrade or sell in town.

Am definitely looking forward to playing new heroes from the very start especially the female characters and hope it works out with the visual cosmetics you spoke about.

Thanks for a most excellent sequel to DARK QUEST and much success

[Summerland]

I'll be adding a thumbs up review right after this! In regards to:

3) Makes sense now that I think of it. With the barbarian, he just needs 1 area of effect ability to make him as enjoyable and rounded as the others. Whirlwind is perfect. Any enemy in the immediate 1 block around him suffers 1/2/3 attack or 2/3/4. Something like that.

4) collasped rendering sounds good. I also just thought of a feature that creates a grid mode. Everything in bright cherry red or silver type color that overlaps everything while its turned on. So that you can select any grid block you choose.

5) 3 traps in a row are rough, lol. But I guess I'll try better strategy and more healing potions. I have a throw away idea, may be good may be bad and unbalanced, you deceide. Say you want to put someone else in besides the dwarf or archer in a trap mission and your low on health in an area you know has traps. Maybe the character can sacrifice some gold to throw on the ground to set off the trap. If you make the trap where abouts random this would play the gold toss more
of a sacrifice, and add small amount of depth.

6) I found the crossbow. Look forward to seeing the others.

7. Thought it may have been a running joke :)


Maybe a small tutorial to explain how the stats works & how their determined. I wouldn't say its unbalanced much. I had to repeat a few missions but I just grinded a bit or went to another to toughen up and then it was no problem. I think you've done an amazing job, its fun to play. The only thing I'd add if I was part of the team is a few new monsters and maybe a new enviroment and extra artifacts. If you do an expansion or DLC I'd love to see that. Little things can add replayability like a random dead body on the ground, blood splattered here or there. A slime or spider climbing up a wall as part of the background or burn marks on the wall from a fireball. Things like that randomly generated into any room as a surprise. I'm no programer, I don't know how hard that would be to do though.

[Brain Seal Entertainment]

i think the map with 3 traps you are referring to is the cage of horrors? the room there is optional so hence there are few more traps than usual in such order

we are gonna experiment a little with getting content to be random in the dungeon, the layout will be fixed but monster placement, monster class, treasures and so forth could be random.

we have a few more artifacts in mind but the biggest problem with them they have low visibility, they are hardly ever used.... the backpack is not that important as is and nobody ever goes in there to find something usefull... perhaps some icons in the main screen to quick use those artifacts might work

[Summerland]

That's a good idea on the icon . It probably is the cage of horrors.

Maybe a small random reward if you save all the prisonors. I'm pressed for ideas, you've already done a lot of good ones and its getting better all the time. You could maybe change title colors on the floor, like they did in Diablo 1. I think I'll get DQ1 now since i like this one so much.

Thanks for the response and for all the hard work! Few games I love this much, so its awesome seeing them updated and the developer in touch with the gamer! Enjoy your weekend!

[Darthvegeta800]

Originally posted by Brain Seal Entertainment:

It is funny about the quests, we removed replayability and then some fun went away because some people liked to grind a little to get stronger before a difficult a quest. Then we added back and some people seem to grind the same dungeon over and over to get max skills and then go on to the more difficult quests.

We are going to add some things to make it more challenging. For each time you visit the dungeon, monsters will grow stronger and stronger, perhaps some random traps and even an extra monster here and there... some form of mini-random changes. Maybe even some existing items could sometimes no longer be there?

Also we have been thinking this for awhile is to lock some skills until a certain amount of quests has been completed. For example the Wizard firewall could required 4 quests completed before you can unlock it. Another thought regarding this is 4 quests completed with this hero? or 4 quests completed all together by the player?


Regarding character creation we have something planned where you can select one of the 6 heroes to be "YOU" and start the game with that hero instead of the barbarian-wizard duo.


we are going to experiment a little with the cosmetics when we get some time, see how easy it is to add different looks that you can perhaps buy at the merchant or just customize the hero right from the begining.


Your other points have been considered as well, i think we need a few more skills for heroes to perhaps max all to 9. Having some skills to decide whether +1 attack or +1 defence sounds like a good idea but equipment was designed to fill that role.

I'd rather not have them become too much stronger.
I noticed I'm a bit stuck due to the early mission being quite harsh.

[BobbyGun]

You can pass the traps wearing the boots of swiftness or teleport beyond with the staff (dont know the name) with wizard / dark monk. But if you cant either and with low health, yes traps suck :)

[Summerland]

Sometimes more then one of you has to go over it. But I seem to get through anyway. Castle of Doom is tough, but I'll try bringing in the best healing potions.

[sickle1986]

Could we have a way to see our combat rolls, if we haven't got a way to do so already please?

[Summerland]

This should be pinned. I think anyway.