meta decking in low rank and also unrank in rotation

[Bread Director]

this is the saddest show of poor sportsmanship in a card game i've have ever seen, do you feel good about yourself beating down somebody with 0 good card, why not rank yourself to gm went you know you're using tier 1 deck? my win rate is about 6 lost for 1 win, and i've got a lot of experience in card games, but in this one the legends card are so powerfull most of the time you cannot turn the game around at all.

[aidanfilson25]

it's a problem with no obvious answer, the single player content in this gives you so much resources you can easily make top tier decks without even touching ranked, in fact the strongest deck right now is one of the cheapest in the game which only adds to the ease of making it

which means new players who decide they want to jump right into playing more likely than not will already be faced with the meta, granted the people playing it probably wont be playing optimally but nonetheless it's a meta deck

[sekai]

This isn't new for the CCG genre. The same issue also plagued games like Hearthstone where just about most of the "Golden Heroes" (meaning 500+ wins in Ranked and Arena on just THAT hero ALONE, ie extremely seasoned veteran) with ridiculous netdecks all swim in the entrance Rank levels to destroy all the new and f2p players.

This, after some careful thoughts, is probably a result of a combining reasons including:

- the genre having a high "show off" factor due to all the hundreds of cards/their flashy synergies and the truckload of cosmetics,
- that most ranks don't require beyond rudimentary tactical skills and reading comprehension on the part of the player and the player's actual power mostly come from the cards they own,
- and of course, the complete lack of measures put to prevent well equipped and seasoned player from destroying low ranks (in for example League of Legends, to receive the seasonal reward require you at least be in a mid tier rank, and measures are implemented to shuffle strong players up the ladder and attempt to punish those that lose games on purpose to go down).

To put it in a nutshell, in a game with a high "show off" factors, that requires little player effort to actually do the show-offing so long they paid their dues to get the powers in the form of cards (unless the players is seriously dumb, any player with the strong and synergising cards will beat the players with little/weak/un-synergising cards to work with; they don't even need to craft the deck themselves since they can just netdeck), and there's little to no measures to stop their onslaught on the devs part (the devs of Shadowverse does have a band-aid solution of pve progression which I'll get to later). Thus you get this situation.

Hell, even in League of Legends where all of the 3 pitfalls are not really present (outside of fotm picks: to be good, you need to actually be good as a player; and as mentioned the measures put there to prevent low elo stomping), you still get players going out of their way to create and level new accounts (you need to reach account level 30 AND own at least 20 champions to even play rank mode) just to get this rush of stomping low ranks. Obviously, in CCG it's absolute heaven for these flock of sad sods and the feasts begin.

.......

That said, in Shadowverse it's not as bad as it is in Hearthstone. In Hearthstone, last time I checked new and f2p players are pretty much expected to become the dregs of the matchmaking and suck up all the losses for the paying customers and the whales because of the poverty feedback loop that requires wins to progress in f2p (and even if you do, it's abysmally slow anyway).

Yeah, the pros always like to advertise that it's entirely possible to climb with f2p in Hearthstone. Except that it requires you disenchanting your entire starting card book to make 1 single fotm deck to flex with (which ofc, is entirely at the mercy of the next patch), on top of knowing the game inside and out to stomp Arena. So it's like a rich person saying to a poor person that they can get rich if they sell everything they own to jump on the current hype industry trend and know the market in and out to roll big in stock market (and no, a stunt experiment is nothing when you know you always have something to fall back to and can repeat as many times as you like to produce 1 success story).

Whereas in Shadowverse, there is a dedicated pve engagement where you can change your quests to only pve and grind story mode (the prebuild deck for story is a god-send) and pve dailies (fun fact: you can breeze through all pve dailies by spamming the required class on the very first chapter in story mode where they teach you the very basic mechanics of the class. Each run counts as a win for the class in story mode and takes roughly a minute) on top of daily log in rewards. There's also the arena that is said you still gain even if you lose everything, but I haven't played much.

So you can just stay mostly pve until you can build your baby's first budget netdeck to past the low rank campers then your options open up.

[WatchmenWakeUpOnYT]

Omfg just build a deck yourself

[sekai]

Publicado originalmente por Ramuchi:

Omfg just build a deck yourself

Easier said than done. While it's true that SV has a far easier time in farming a deck than most other competitors on the market, it doesn't change the fact netdeck stomping in low rank is a problem probably as old as CCG is as a genre (probably more so in the the f2p variant).

It also speaks to a deeper problem in all competitive games. Players do often go as low as they can get away with, which in less monitored games often include abusive behaviours and griefing. Stomping players in a rank where they shouldn't be is but one of the many ♥♥♥♥♥♥ things players do when no one is looking.

[adleen]

If you can't beat them join them

[Slava]

Publicado originalmente por Ramuchi:

Omfg just build a deck yourself

This is the reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDoPXEske1Q&list=LLuI08BW1ohrpuoBkTIPdezA&index=9&t=0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8B9DX3pMo&list=LLuI08BW1ohrpuoBkTIPdezA&index=8&t=0s
I think this is perfect explanation. Sad
If you played Dota 2 you will understand even without knowing russian

[aidanfilson25]

I mean tbf anyone can play a grandmaster deck in unlimited, one of the strongest decks in unlimited plays 0 legendaries and almost no golds

[Bread Director]

lost 8 game today in a row, no mercy no chance, it's making me sick.

[Bread Director]

but thank you all for the feedback!

[Chandut]

love you Bro SEKAI (世界)

[John Josep Jingleheimer Schmidt]

Publicado originalmente por RiotJune:

I agree with TC, and Sekai's post has some good points as well. Here's my salty 2 cents:

That's why I only stick to AI dailies (you only get half the rupies, but at a fraction of the time), and immediately quit out of my free grand prix runs for that quick 30 rupies, if I still had any motivation to log in.

As a C (but really D) ranker who continually gets pit against masters and gm's because their so-called perfect yet nonexistent matchmaker thought it was a good idea, why should I be giving these tryhard ****'s free and easy wins? Let the tryhards with the meta decks play against each other and waste each other's time I'd say. Don't let them talk you into playing against other hoomans, they're just trying to farm easy wins and rupies off of first farers and the like.

Now that we have two formats (rotation and unlimited) in which to compete, there's a reason why gm's in one format will intentionally keep the other format at D rank in order to farm beginners at that rank for dailies. I've seen way too many players with gm flairs and sleeves they won from rotation format being matched with a C ranker like myself because I happened to play unlimited format. These players want to show off their fancy gm flairs and sleeves while also letting everyone know they're stomping low ranks? I guess they or their mothers must be proud.

What's that? Gm's can be really good at one format but can be legit D RANK in the other because the two formats are completely different from each other? If you're good enough to be gm in one format, then you've probably got time to look up and copy a 9.5+ SSS ultra tier deck and at least get out of D RANK, if not C, or even B. You're not fooling anyone.

GP/Grand Prix is even worse because there's no matchmaking at all, so a C-D player would only be matched against masters and gm's because they're the only ones who play this mode it seems. I guess if they're lacking in players who rarely touch one mode or another, this happens.

Once you become a tryhard yourself with all the cards and 3+ copies of every legendary you'll ever need, then you have my permission to jump into the tryhard shark pool along with the rest of them. Make their matches long and tough (rope every turn if you've got time to kill lul), and make them try hard and really work for their wins. After all, gm vs gm matches should be tough and based on critical decision making, not based on top-decking an "I win" card from decks that basically play themselves, right? Right.

I used to log in and complete a couple dailies, after initially spending about $200 because I liked shiny things and unique leaders. If I played against another player who I am obviously overmatched against because the other person had no good cards or was using entry cards, I would feel bad and just give them the win, which I did often lol. Then I would open up my collection and admire what few animated cards I had. But now I can't even be ****ed to. I don't really own any of the cards anyway, and there's just way too many other games out there one can keep themselves busy with in this day and age. Granblue Fantasy Versus comes to mind and I feel like less of a punching bag there, thank god for a PC release.

this is just another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ chinese grinding game, or you spent your life grinding or STFU, that's the meta, there is no dealing whit greedy companies like these, after all, things like "fun" or "fair match" do not sell, what's sells are xtra dmg. self played decks full of +20/+30 shiny legendaries that will mostly ruin other players, that's what sells, the overpowered stomping deck that last for around half season till somebody finds a counter to it. new players in this genre can't do ♥♥♥♥ other that spam accounts, fill the campaign made the current top deck and ruin other players, rince and repeat each season.

[Slava]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy Old Man:

this is just another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ chinese grinding game, or you spent your life grinding or STFU, that's the meta, there is no dealing whit greedy companies like these, after all, things like "fun" or "fair match" do not sell, what's sells are xtra dmg. self played decks full of +20/+30 shiny legendaries that will mostly ruin other players, that's what sells, the overpowered stomping deck that last for around half season till somebody finds a counter to it. new players in this genre can't do ♥♥♥♥ other that spam accounts, fill the campaign made the current top deck and ruin other players, rince and repeat each season.

[aidanfilson25]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy Old Man:

this is just another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ chinese grinding game, or you spent your life grinding or STFU, that's the meta, there is no dealing whit greedy companies like these, after all, things like "fun" or "fair match" do not sell, what's sells are xtra dmg. self played decks full of +20/+30 shiny legendaries that will mostly ruin other players, that's what sells, the overpowered stomping deck that last for around half season till somebody finds a counter to it. new players in this genre can't do ♥♥♥♥ other that spam accounts, fill the campaign made the current top deck and ruin other players, rince and repeat each season.

okay, just ignore the fact that last season and this season one of the strongest decks in the rotation format only played 3 and 6 legendaries respectively, and for over a year one of the strongest decks in unlimited plays only 1 legendary (which every player has for free anyways) and is almost entirely made of bronze and silver cards

[Slava]

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[Firehawk]

Publicado originalmente por Slava:

Do not start flame wars!

Uh-huh.

Publicado originalmente por Slava:

Do not reply to person whose iq is lower then 80. If you are person whose iq is lower then 80 do not write in Steam Discussions!

What a hypocrite.