18+ Patch Disappointment

[Arkinum]

To the developers/localization team/publishers.

I've been following this localization for a while now, and was looking forward to supporting the localization efforts after they re-added the removed 18+ content.

From what I can tell the 18+ CG's still have mosaics on them, and cost 10$ (5$ on sale).

While the bumped up price doesn't necessarily break the deal for me, the mosaics do. I consider removing mosaics, or other like censorship part of the translation process.

I feel that charging for content that was removed and not “translated” is kind of low, and shows a lazy nickle and dime attitude.

Anyway, to keep this short, I'm not buying this game because I don't believe in supporting the above practices.

You lost a sale today, and thought you should know why.

[Muv-Luv]

[i[I feel that charging for content that was removed and not “translated” is kind of low, and shows a lazy nickle and dime attitude.[/i]

Hi Arkinum, thank you for the feedback! : )

It actually ate up the time that's meant for porting the game to PS Vita, causing a bit of disappointment from our PSVita fans.

We did suggest doing non-mosaic, but the game's being sold in Japan too. We listened when people asked to include the original Japanese text and selling it too to Japanese audience, and unfortunately this is the downside of it -- we win some, we lose some :(

Thank you for letting us know your thoughts, and we sincerely apologize for not meeting your expectations m(_ _)m

[odisos]

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

[i[I feel that charging for content that was removed and not “translated” is kind of low, and shows a lazy nickle and dime attitude.[/i]

Hi Arkinum, thank you for the feedback! : )

It actually ate up the time that's meant for porting the game to PS Vita, causing a bit of disappointment from our PSVita fans.

We did suggest doing non-mosaic, but the game's being sold in Japan too. We listened when people asked to include the original Japanese text and selling it too to Japanese audience, and unfortunately this is the downside of it -- we win some, we lose some :(

Thank you for letting us know your thoughts, and we sincerely apologize for not meeting your expectations m(_ _)m

That's not true. If you wan't you could do it without that much effort and you did recived 1,25mio from the kickstarter so this much shouldn't be a problem. You can release a mosaic free uncut patch by selling two versions on steam, one japanese and one international. The international version would be banned for the japanese market and the mosaicless uncut patch only works with this version (japanese version still needs the mosiced uncut patch in this case). One example for a game that is locked like that is Wolfenstein: The New Order, it has only a censorred version for the german market and you can neither purchase, gift nor activate the uncut version in/to germany. Also Steam allready has Games that deliver purchasable(Corona Blossom Vol.2 - Patch[jlist.com]) and free(Sunrider Academy - Patch) uncut patches. Corona Blossom is also bilingual. Their only counter measure is a side, which can't be accessed with japanese IPs.

[Polite Society]

Why not just IP lock JP purchaces like other games do? o.o

[Muv-Luv]

We'll probably consider it someday, but right now we have to finish our Kickstarter commitments. We kept our promise to release the 18+ patch and de-mosaic was not part of the discussions nor brought up by any of our backers.

[odisos]

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

We'll probably consider it someday,[...]

Translation: "it will never happen".

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

[...]was not part of the discussions nor brought up by any of our backers.

And again you've been proven wrong. "[...]Please do address the mosaic question in the FAQ[...]"

I was really happy that you had announced a patch at your kickstarter, but after you took so much time to release it and now that it's still censored, that's no longer the case. I really hope you would revise your statement above and actually deliver the message "They wan't it mosaicless and here is how we can do it..." to some higher-ups and don't smash it down instantly.

[Muv-Luv]

Originally posted by odisos:

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

We'll probably consider it someday,[...]

Translation: "it will never happen".

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

[...]was not part of the discussions nor brought up by any of our backers.

And again you've been proven wrong. "[...]Please do address the mosaic question in the FAQ[...]"

We can't talk about 18+ especially its details on Kickstarter, and it wasn't brought up outside of Kickstarter. It's also a matter of frequency, we need more than a few people to bring it up.

[Rashala]

personally I am waiting for the Android Versions of E U and A

[Vechernyaya]

Paying content that no one wanted removed in the first place ? This is insane. I won't buy the game, nor Alternative, and I put Degica in my personal black list (don't buy anything related to them).
Bye, until you regain some sense.

[AidanAK47]

It really is amazing how high handed people can be about not being able to see ♥♥♥♥♥ and vaginas. Yes yes, orignal content blah blah...but really that's all this is. It's sex scenes son, not even good ones. They were shoe horned in to begin with so in all regards the story actually benefits with them removed.(Cause you know I always thought it was incredablly stupid that after getting nearly expelled, two kids decide to have sex on school grounds) But hey you got them anyway and now you complain that you can't see ♥♥♥♥♥ or vaginas.

You believe that this calls the character of those who worked to bring this series to the west into question. But if you ask me the fact that you forgo buying one of the most famous visual novels of all time because you couldn't see genitalia, really speaks more about your own character.

[Nox]

Dose steam even allow contnet like that to acutally be sold on the plaform?

[Vechernyaya]

Originally posted by AidanAK47:

It really is amazing how high handed people can be about not being able to see ♥♥♥♥♥ and vaginas.(...)

How high handed are you, telling people what they should do or think, and how they must spend their money ?

Originally posted by AidanAK47:

Yes yes, orignal content blah blah...but really that's all this is. It's sex scenes son, not even good ones. They were shoe horned in to begin with so in all regards the story actually benefits with them removed.(Cause you know I always thought it was incredablly stupid that after getting nearly expelled, two kids decide to have sex on school grounds) But hey you got them anyway and now you complain that you can't see ♥♥♥♥♥ or ♥♥♥♥♥♥s.

It's fun to see you defend Degica's translation work by spitting on the devs creative work, and then concluding with :

Originally posted by AidanAK47:

You believe that this calls the character of those who worked to bring this series to the west into question.

At least, try to be a little consistent if you wants to be taken seriously.

[Muv-Luv]

@Vechernyaya we want to ask you this question -- if almost every other games are selling their adult patch from $4.99 to $9.99 and we make ours free, doesn't that devalue Muv-Luv's worth/the respect it deserves?

If you're telling us to be a hero who breaks the norm, it might sound very cool on the surface... but the reality there is, other companies will end up not willing to work with us regardless if it's SP/MG/JAST/Nutaku etc. The main reason here is that patches take quite some time to make, especially with Muv-Luv's game engine. It's not something our devs can work with and magically it will be available within a few hours... it actually took us from August to November to complete it! (Our PS Vita backers are very frustrated already ==;;)

This is our first localized Visual Novel too, and we want to ensure Muv-Luv's success so we have been asking advice from all our passionate fans and companies who voluntarily supported us ever since the Kickstarter and Prefundia campaigns.

Choosing who to listen to is often a hard choice, and we always rely on data. We can't make decisions(risks) based on emotions nor moral values too often, it has to be backed with data/proof that it is good for business because we have to ensure every staff members are eating and sleeping well.

We're doing a retranslation of the scripts right now, which isn't part of the KS scope, and it is pretty costly. If we truly intend to spit on the devs' work, we would've just edited the fan translation and released Muv-Luv Alternative 2 months ago and Muv-Luv Extra+Unlimited last April, and only a handful will raise their eyebrow, since translation mistakes can't be seen unless the original Japanese text has been read. But the translators working with us didn't choose to do that, and we decided to support their passion for the trilogy. We wouldn't have made it this far without everyone's awesome help and advice.

Odisos also said we raised $1.25m, and we should have been able to do his request easily... but that's not really as convenient as it sounds, especially because our manufacturers/ partners can see that money raised as it can be viewed in public as well, so they'll just say "Hey you've raised a million, don't you have to be a little generous...?" or "Hey you've raised 1.25m, so here are our (hehe, most expensive) offers..."
So we aren't really getting the most affordable deals from anyone we encounter, and every fans who have complained so far have been using this card, and it's getting pretty old already to be honest. That's the main disadvantage about it. You can ask other developers who used Kickstarter, or other games that also made millions but ended up spending a lot more especially because of unexpected costs along the way.

We fully understand that not everyone will support the decisions we've made, and we're prepared for the consequences such as getting blacklisted by users.

Thank you for the feedback once again everyone, and please, let's just focus on the topic regarding 18+ patch disappointment and not flame others, otherwise we'll have to close the thread.

[Nox]

Originally posted by Muv-Luv:

@Vechernyaya we want to ask you this question -- if almost every other games are selling their adult patch from $4.99 to $9.99 and we make ours free, doesn't that devalue Muv-Luv's worth/the respect it deserves?

If you're telling us to be a hero who breaks the norm, it might sound very cool on the surface... but the reality there is, other companies will end up not willing to work with us regardless if it's SP/MG/JAST/Nutaku etc. The main reason here is that patches take quite some time to make, especially with Muv-Luv's game engine. It's not something our devs can work with and magically it will be available within a few hours... it actually took us from August to November to complete it! (Our PS Vita backers are very frustrated already ==;;)

This is our first localized Visual Novel too, and we want to ensure Muv-Luv's success so we have been asking advice from all our passionate fans and companies who voluntarily supported us ever since the Kickstarter and Prefundia campaigns.

Choosing who to listen to is often a hard choice, and we always rely on data. We can't make decisions(risks) based on emotions nor moral values too often, it has to be backed with data/proof that it is good for business because we have to ensure every staff members are eating and sleeping well.

We're doing a retranslation of the scripts right now, which isn't part of the KS scope, and it is pretty costly. If we truly intend to spit on the devs' work, we would've just edited the fan translation and released Muv-Luv Alternative 2 months ago and Muv-Luv Extra+Unlimited last April, and only a handful will raise their eyebrow, since translation mistakes can't be seen unless the original Japanese text has been read. But the translators working with us didn't choose to do that, and we decided to support their passion for the trilogy. We wouldn't have made it this far without everyone's awesome help and advice.

Odisos also said we raised $1.25m, and we should have been able to do his request easily... but that's not really as convenient as it sounds, especially because our manufacturers/ partners can see that money raised as it can be viewed in public as well, so they'll just say "Hey you've raised a million, don't you have to be a little generous...?" or "Hey you've raised 1.25m, so here are our (hehe, most expensive) offers..."
So we aren't really getting the most affordable deals from anyone we encounter, and every fans who have complained so far have been using this card, and it's getting pretty old already to be honest. That's the main disadvantage about it. You can ask other developers who used Kickstarter, or other games that also made millions but ended up spending a lot more especially because of unexpected costs along the way.

We fully understand that not everyone will support the decisions we've made, and we're prepared for the consequences such as getting blacklisted by users.

Thank you for the feedback once again everyone, and please, let's just focus on the topic regarding 18+ patch disappointment and not flame others, otherwise we'll have to close the thread.

Alterative please :{

[Vechernyaya]

You editors, are making the so-called "norm", if you make free patches, the norm will be free patches.
But there is no such things as your "norm", some companies actually deliver free patches, while others prioritize complete versions. The time/cost requested for translating the patch should have been included from the start. It's an actual part of the game that YOU removed.
In the end, with your way of doing things PC players like me are unhappy, and PS Vita players are unhappy Was that worth it ? I don't think companies can thrive against their customers.

I understand that you want to appeal to new players, but remember that it's a niche genre, and people who discovered and made a reputation for Muv Luv played the full version, they didn't liked it because of porn, but porn was a part of the experience. And people usualy wants the full experience.

The complete version of a product must always be the priority.
If you release the 18+, then, some month later, a censored version, the latter can be less expensive, noone will care.
But here if I decide to buy the game you force me to buy a butchered product, then wait month and pay for a restauration patch to get the complete product as it was designed originally. You're doing things against my interest as a customer.

Another thing is, people like me who played the fan translated version wants to buy this version only to pay their due because we played it for free (I'm obviously not alone in this case, at this time there was Fuwanovel prepatched torrents). Most of Japanese VNs were "sale forbidden outside of Japan", even if it was still possible to find them.
I understand that these japanese companies now wants money for their game that we played, it's totally legit, and fair.
But you can't only propose VNs we have already red AND censor them AND ask us to pay to decensor them AND be applaud for it, that's just crazy.


Edit : I didn't said you were spitting on the devs, I was responding to someone basically saying "Show some respect for the work of Degica because they brought us a great game that is way better without porn" by pointing his inconsistencies.

Edit 2 : Just to know, are you going to charge the same price for Alternative 18+ patch.
I mean, Alternative 18+ content is rather thin.

[Muv-Luv]

That's why we're making a sale for a limited time so non-backers can get both the game and patch under $33, instead of $45 for both. We don't expect to get much after that since we're aware not everyone likes buying the patch, and it's fine -- we don't expect to be applauded for this at all. We hoped initially that we could make the patch free, but the costs were too much considering the time spent, and we have to sustain everyone in the team.

Reply to your edits: Thank you for the clarification. We're not sure what actions we'll take for MLA's patch, it makes sense to make it free because we'll uncensor chomp and character deaths in the standard release. We'll just inform everyone when we get there.