Compared to Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and Sorcerer King

[FroBodine]

This looks VERY similar to those two games. Could some of the beta players that have played these games please talk a bit about the similarities and differences?

I love those two Stardock games, and don't really need another of the same thing. But, if Planar Conquest is different enough, then I'm all in!

[Xerberus86]

well first fallen enchantress - legendary heroes and sorcerer king are NOT the same genre / sub-genre! sorcerer king is a 4x / rogue-like (or roguelite) hybrid. in sorcerer king your main goal is less your empire but your hero and his units leveling & gearing up in order to defeat the big bad boy, so you can't really put SK into the same pot as FE:LH and Planar Conquest.

fallen enchantress legendary heroes (FE:LH) is a good game with a good mix of tactical combat, city management, heroes with RPG elements, questing and overall fantasy 4x gameplay. in terms of fantasy 4x games, which i think you are looking for, FE:LH is pretty much the most balanced one in terms of features and gameplay. i have 64 hours clocked into FE:LH and it is a great game BUT: it has a bunch of glitches / bugs, AI is quite meh (quite passive and bad at army management), the maps are kinda boring cuz no sea travel and most importantly....the customizable troops and factions is one of FE:LH advantages but also one of its biggest flaws. the diversification of units in FE:LH is quite low and linear, the races / factions are all humans differently colored with some % bonuses and one trait each. the amount of spells / magic in FE:LH is just "ok" and the quality / uniqueness of its spells is quite low tbh or at least not that appealing to me.

now before i go to planar conquest and start to gloat there are two other alternatives: age of wondres 3 and endless legend. both of them are also 4x fantasy games and with FE:LH the top3 of the 4x fantasy games....if you have enough money and / or time you should get them all, they have enough difference that you should play them all.

endless legend biggest strength is its faction asymmetry, each faction plays truly unique! you have only like 3 units per faction but you can customize them with gear and basically the 3 unit types are the templates for your own creation. there are also over 24 minor factions with each their unique unit which you can acquire. the lore of the world is very immersive and each of the currently 10 (8 in base game) races plays very differently from each other. it also has a good multiplayer (simultanious turns) and the tactical combat takes place on an instanced part of the worldmap so its a good 4x fantasy for multiplayer. the cons are few but for some quite heavy: low amount of faction units (just 3) which you can give equipment and stats / traits but ultimately you will have mostly these 3 + 2 or 3 minor faction units (which you can also gear out), the battle system is minimalistic at best, there is no real magic system in the game. the game is also not truly fantasy but sci-fi fantasy (magic or fantastical beings / mechanics are explained as technical creations).

age of wonders 3: has 9 different races which have some boni / traits and the difference comes from the 7 classes you can choose (different units, spells, etc.). in terms of visual fidelity its the best 4x fantasy game (or 4x in general this game is stunningly beautiful). it also has tons of magic spells, tons of units with pages of traits & abilities, is quite balanced and has arguably the best AI in the 4x genre currently. if your main goal in a 4x fantasy game is the tactical combat then age of wonders 3 will be your cocaine....it has hands down the best combat in all 4x fantasy games because the plethory of units and combat features. the world also shifts and changes depending on some spells or events etc. the biggest downside is the lackluster city management (it is mainly geared towards unit production or waging war in general) and the very light diplomacy options. so if you set your focus on city management / development then AoW3 might not be your cup of tea.

for the sake of naming it there is also warlock 1 & 2 but the AI is braindead, game is still quite buggy and its basically a civ5 light version with some spells....maybe an entry level for complete 4x noobs but everyone else will long for more.

now PLANAR CONQUEST: remember my description about FE:LH? planar conquest is almost the same BUT with hundreds of spells (taken from dungeons & dragons games a la dragon age, baldurs gate, neverwinter nights etc.), hundred(s) of units which each having unique stats and traits like in a baldurs gate / NWN or dragon age RPG and it looks much prettier than FE:LH and the races are your standard fantasy tropes a la dark elves, undead, dwarves, orcs, insectoids, grey elves and humans. planar conquest also has seven planes which offer unique bonuses, resources and special locations. if you like having a bunch of interesting fantasy units like summoned gargoles, mummies, hellhounds and the likes which you love to enchant / buff with special spells like unholy weapon, blessing, flying / waterwalking and literally hundreds more, then planar conquest will enchant you. it has less +5 production / research / gold buildings like civ5, but still over a dozen of buildings which in the way they are intertwined in the city building tree and coupled with upkeep etc. they deliver you some hard choices on what to do, focusing on military, food, production, money, growth or some unique resources granting stat bonuses. if the devs iron out some (very) minor rough edges in the controls and of course (as every 4x game) improve on the AI, then this might become the definite version of the best 4x fantasy game. i can highly recommend it if you liked fallen enchantress legendary heroes but wished for more fantasy-esque races, more spells, more unique worlds and a more indepth battle system.


TL;DR: planar conquest is a re-imagining of the classic master of magic (pretty much the one fantasy 4x which defined this sub-genre). it has hundreds (or thousand) of spells, hundred of units, seven unique planes, standard fantasy races (meant to be a pro) and best of all dungeon & dragons (DnD) combat rules (like baldurs gate, dragon age, etc.). it has - in my opinion - the best mix of fantasy 4x elements with the standard fantasy tropes where the others have shifted their focus either to city management or combat or non-standard fantasy. i can definitely recommend it although the UI / controls are still in need of some small tweaks. planar conquest so far is quite addictive :). only reason i write to you is because the AI just killed me off (FUN in a dwarvish way :D). if the devs iron out some (very) minor rough edges in the controls and of course (as every 4x game) improve on the AI, then this might become the definite version of the best 4x fantasy game. i can highly recommend it if you liked fallen enchantress legendary heroes but wished for more fantasy-esque races, more spells, more unique worlds and a more indepth battle system.

[WadeStar]

I'll add to the above that I felt FE:LH had a bad AI and that it was effectively a sand-box game. It also had DLC that made things worse in this regard. YMMV

[Xerberus86]

Publicado originalmente por jpwrunyan:

I'll add to the above that I felt FE:LH had a bad AI and that it was effectively a sand-box game. It also had DLC that made things worse in this regard. YMMV

you might've not read all my text, won't blame ya^^, but i also said that the AI wasn't nearly active / competent enough to pose a challenge. most of the time you were just pve farming with your doom stack, killing monster camps and doing some quests. also i love to play undead races, love the theme, and still hate stardoch for absolutely screwing up the undead race which came in a dlc and its still broken till now.

[FroBodine]

Wow! Thank you very much, Xerberus86, for the very detailed response. I read every word, and really appreciate you taking the time to write it. I hate TL:DRs, think they're stupid, so I enjoyed your write-up.

Anyway . . . I have all of the games you talked about, AOW3, Endless Legend, Warlock and Warlock II and the Stardock games. I enjoy them all.

It sounds like Planar Conquest will be right up my alley, and I look forward to buying it Monday! Good thing it's a holiday and I'll have a chance to play right away!

Thank you!

[WadeStar]

@Xerberus86

I just meant to add to your comment on AI to say that my experience made it feel tantamount to a sandbox. Bad AI is one thing... FE:LH AI though...

And I felt the game never knew how to play the undead. Or how to negotiate its own advanced combat maps. I personally turned off both of those DLC in order to make the game feel more like I was playing against someone.

It's just a matter of subjective experience, not a difference of opinion really.

[Trotwood]

Fe:lh and Warlock two would be nearly perfect games imo if they did not have such horrendous ai.

[Versive]

@Xerberus86 Good Post!

[Syrris]

I've never played Warlock or EL to comment on them, but of the rest of the games mentioned (AoW, Sorcerer King, FE, etc), and assorted others (Heroes of Might and Magic, Lords of Magic, and Planar Conquest/Worlds of Magic), they all have some similarities because they all trace back in various ways to Microprose's "Master of Magic" in the early 90s, which pretty much established the genre and which the others are all reinterpretations of, sometimes focusing on specific aspects over the rest (Age of Wonders puts much more emphasis on the tactical combat element, for example).

Planar Conquest is the closest to MoM in its core concepts and emphasis; I'd say that Sorcerer King, despite having a very different approach with its storyline element, is the next-closest.

[Trotwood]

Sorcerer king is/was great. I played it a bunch on release and had a good time. I found it to be a bit too easy, again an ai issue, same as FE:LH. I know its a different genre: but im pinning alot of hopes on stellaris eventually being a good example of decent ai and diplomacy, but it needs quite a bit of patching from its current state to get there.

If planar conquest manages to have halfway decent ai and at least somewhat engaging (common sense interactions) diplomacy I will be thrilled.

[76561198307235455]

Publicado originalmente por Syrris:

I've never played Warlock or EL to comment on them, but of the rest of the games mentioned (AoW, Sorcerer King, FE, etc), and assorted others (Heroes of Might and Magic, Lords of Magic, and Planar Conquest/Worlds of Magic), they all have some similarities because they all trace back in various ways to Microprose's "Master of Magic" in the early 90s, which pretty much established the genre and which the others are all reinterpretations of, sometimes focusing on specific aspects over the rest (Age of Wonders puts much more emphasis on the tactical combat element, for example).

Planar Conquest is the closest to MoM in its core concepts and emphasis; I'd say that Sorcerer King, despite having a very different approach with its storyline element, is the next-closest.

sorry but sorcerer king is not even a real 4x game so i can't see how you come to the conclusion that it has anything to do with master of magic?

if we look at the features and core gameplay then planar conquest is the re-imagining of MoM and FE:LH comes afterwards with quite a mileage between those two.

[76561198307235455]

Publicado originalmente por Trotwood:

Sorcerer king is/was great. I played it a bunch on release and had a good time. I found it to be a bit too easy, again an ai issue, same as FE:LH. I know its a different genre: but im pinning alot of hopes on stellaris eventually being a good example of decent ai and diplomacy, but it needs quite a bit of patching from its current state to get there.

If planar conquest manages to have halfway decent ai and at least somewhat engaging (common sense interactions) diplomacy I will be thrilled.

well if you are looking for 4x / GSG in space with good AI then i can recommend you distant worlds universe (60% discount atm which doesn't come that often): http://store.steampowered.com/app/261470/

it's stellaris on steroids with 10 times the features & depth, with better AI and i would even say better diplomacy atm. stellaris might reach DW:U some day but that will take a couple years :).

[Kadrush]

FE LH has something that World of Magic lacked badly and I hope that Planar Conquest will have. Customizable units and squad sizes, you start with 3 men units doing voilá 3x damage, after some research you can unlock 4 men squads and after that 5 and 6 men, being a clearly advantage. But you are not locked to that, if you want to spamm units on late game, or just lack the resources to make 6 men ones you can return to 3 men designs, very usefull for spamming city defenders.

Not sure if Planar Conquest will have those features. Worlds of Magic also lacked more units and Men race really lacked a light cavalry unit.

[Xerberus86]

Publicado originalmente por Kadrush:

FE LH has something that World of Magic lacked badly and I hope that Planar Conquest will have. Customizable units and squad sizes, you start with 3 men units doing voilá 3x damage, after some research you can unlock 4 men squads and after that 5 and 6 men, being a clearly advantage. But you are not locked to that, if you want to spamm units on late game, or just lack the resources to make 6 men ones you can return to 3 men designs, very usefull for spamming city defenders.

Not sure if Planar Conquest will have those features. Worlds of Magic also lacked more units and Men race really lacked a light cavalry unit.

Planar conquest doesn't have customizable units and thank god for that. Fe:lh customizable units meant always the same 2-3 units because there were only so much optimal builds and powercreep was hard, no interesting units with special abilities or strengths but an achilles heel. In games like planar conquest you get predefined units but they are diverse.


But there are hero units with customizable gear, so some customization is in it.

[Leszek]

Also the units are developing by gaining the experience during the battles, so it is worth not too lose them.

[ArchAngel]

Publicado originalmente por Xerberus86:

Publicado originalmente por Kadrush:

FE LH has something that World of Magic lacked badly and I hope that Planar Conquest will have. Customizable units and squad sizes, you start with 3 men units doing voilá 3x damage, after some research you can unlock 4 men squads and after that 5 and 6 men, being a clearly advantage. But you are not locked to that, if you want to spamm units on late game, or just lack the resources to make 6 men ones you can return to 3 men designs, very usefull for spamming city defenders.

Not sure if Planar Conquest will have those features. Worlds of Magic also lacked more units and Men race really lacked a light cavalry unit.

Planar conquest doesn't have customizable units and thank god for that. Fe:lh customizable units meant always the same 2-3 units because there were only so much optimal builds and powercreep was hard, no interesting units with special abilities or strengths but an achilles heel. In games like planar conquest you get predefined units but they are diverse.


But there are hero units with customizable gear, so some customization is in it.

That sounds very good. I hated how in FE:LH no matter what faction you played in the end it felt like you used sameish units.

I prefer how MoM did it and how it seems this game will. Also even Endless Legend way is good where you get a few set units per faction, each with a defining racial trait but you can then customize their gear depending on access to resources and tech.