Cursed relics not worth it

[Terra Blade]

By and large I have no idea what a large portion of the cursed relics do, because honestly I find that they generally are not worth the trouble. Double trouble being pretty much the only exception since on a high armor cloak/build the damage taken is managable while giving you double damage to dish out.

Maybe if we had descriptions on what we were buying BEFORE you bought like most games would give you so you could make intelligent decisions this wouldn't be true. But picking up a cursed object will generally be the end of a run shortly after since it screws your gameplay so much and you probably weren't built to take it's downside. However while some of the normal relics won't be useful to your current build, generally they won't do things like reduce your health or incrase your damage taken while making your rocket uncrontrollably as you dash or make you move like a snail.

If anything feels half baked in this game, it's the cursed relics, by far.

[Bearus]

Originally posted by Terra Blade:

Originally posted by gruntmaster1:

Vampire Fangs are not fixed, but heals 1% of your max hp. Makes it work well with max health items.

1% of 500 should be 5 per kill...but I usually get 2. So not sure if that was actually fixed.

Vampire fangs reduces max hp to 300 (with no other modifiers), which is 3 health. This matches with the number I usually see.

[Zachmark571]

Originally posted by Terra Blade:

Originally posted by Zachmark571:

Firstly the point I was making about, if the red button is good or not has NOTHING to do with knowing what the relics do, if you wonder about a relic's quality, you should already know what the other options do. It was just to tell you that the relic is good.

But how do you know what something does unless you pick it up? This is slightly mitigated by being able to buy relics between runs with shadow crystals, but most people will start by buying more arcana then relics. In fact I bought arcana, then cloaks, THEN relics. You might have done things differently, but by and large shop items were a gamble until just recently when I finished the rest of the purchuses and moved on to the relics.

But even all that aside, you literally have NO way, in game, of knowing a cursed relics effects until you pick it up. By your logic then if I don't know what the options do I shouldn't take them...and that is exactly my point I made back in the original post by their not being worth it. If you don't know what you are getting, the safer and usually better outcome is to skip them.

Again, having in game item descriptions BEFORE you pick up stuff would allow you to know what you are doing before you make a "mistake" that will usually leave you ill-prepared for the consequences and thus more likely to fail a run. Failure because you could have played better or made a better decision is one thing, but failing due to the suprise of a cursed relic is quite another.

Deciding if something's good or not can be thought of in at least 2 general ways:
Does the item benefit the player? Is the item considered better than other items?
When I decide if something's good or not I take both of those questions into use.
If you don't know what other items do, then you can't use the 2nd general way of valuing an item's worth, resulting in a decision regarding an item's worth that's only half done.
And don't say dumb stuff like "how do you know what something does unless you pick it up?"
The answer's in the question, just pick the other relic or skip them all.

I'm arguing your opinion on cursed relics, I'm not here to discuss the importance of item descriptions, because you have told your view several times, you don't have to repeat it.

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by Zachmark571:

And don't say dumb stuff like "how do you know what something does unless you pick it up?"
The answer's in the question, just pick the other relic or skip them all.

I'm arguing your opinion on cursed relics, I'm not here to discuss the importance of item descriptions, because you have told your view several times, you don't have to repeat it.

My opinion is that without knowing what a cursed relic does before you pick it up, it generally is not worth picking up the relic at all. Ergo, you can't seperate the two arguments about cursed relics and item descriptions. You can't know the benifit or cost of an item mid run without either knowlage beforehand or pausing the game to go look up on the wiki what the item does. Furthermore with the sheer number of relics in the game it's hard to keep track of them all.

My point is not that cursed relics don't have their uses, but that without knowing the cost or even benifit of an item before hand they aren't worth picking up at all. Not unless you are alright with the fact that you pretty much are dooming that run to fail. Which again, isn't good game design when there are so many good reasons to have item descriptions before you pick stuff up.

[JackBaldy]

Originally posted by Terra Blade:

Which again is NOT the point so please try to keep up. The point is that it should have been done by the devs, in game, and not that players are capable of covering a flaw in the game design.

It's kind of hard to argue against having in-game descriptions when a third party mod seemingly implemented it with general ease, something that would be easier for first party developers.

[Redzeth]

Originally posted by Terra Blade:

By and large I have no idea what a large portion of the cursed relics do, because honestly I find that they generally are not worth the trouble. Double trouble being pretty much the only exception since on a high armor cloak/build the damage taken is managable while giving you double damage to dish out.

Maybe if we had descriptions on what we were buying BEFORE you bought like most games would give you so you could make intelligent decisions this wouldn't be true. But picking up a cursed object will generally be the end of a run shortly after since it screws your gameplay so much and you probably weren't built to take it's downside. However while some of the normal relics won't be useful to your current build, generally they won't do things like reduce your health or incrase your damage taken while making your rocket uncrontrollably as you dash or make you move like a snail.

If anything feels half baked in this game, it's the cursed relics, by far.

I don't really know all the relics, but I'd say that horned halo is pretty good (take half current hp dmg, get revived with critical health (around 60hp) when you die) and the emergy healthbox can be okay (slowly regain health when on critical health)

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by Redzeth:

I don't really know all the relics, but I'd say that horned halo is pretty good (take half current hp dmg, get revived with critical health (around 60hp) when you die) and the emergy healthbox can be okay (slowly regain health when on critical health)

Yes, but would you know what it did just by looking at it? Or that it could take a significant chunk of your life once you picked it up? The point isn't how good or bad items are but that once you pick up a few and die to their effects and/or drawbacks you generally don't feel inclined to experiment.

Horned halo is indeed good if you know and plan for picking it up; such as knowing where the item shop for the floor is, not having bought a potion, and maybe not being at full health. But if you already bought the potion and were at full health? it would be a nasty suprise to lose half of it. THAT is my point.

[K4_E]

Just gotta add... if you don't like games that have no item descriptions, you made a mistake purchasing this game. Do more research before you make your purchase, before you come onto the forums calling something a "flaw".

Many of us enjoy the idea of not knowing what your gonna get, and having to learn what everything does. Plus once you unlock the item with chaos gems(other than cursed relics), you have the opportunity to learn what they do.

[Larry]

Spinning Top every time I see it. It's like a free Berzerker buff that lasts forever.
I can dash when I need to move quickly.

[Nuubopotamus]

Silver Spinning Top + Magnetic Follow Up = Boulder Machine Gun

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by Logickane:

Just gotta add... if you don't like games that have no item descriptions, you made a mistake purchasing this game. Do more research before you make your purchase, before you come onto the forums calling something a "flaw".

Many of us enjoy the idea of not knowing what your gonna get, and having to learn what everything does. Plus once you unlock the item with chaos gems(other than cursed relics), you have the opportunity to learn what they do.

Just because YOU enjoy something doesn't mean others do, and even if 'many' like it doesn't change the fact it IS a flaw. Unless of course you have learned and memorized all 144 item descriptions? What about the kids trying to explain things to their parents or friends for the multiplayer? This isn't just about YOU or ME, it's about the fact that without the descriptions it makes the game which is obviously designed to be just pick up and play harder to do that with.

The game loses nothing by adding the descriptions, and gains a whole lot more. That sounds like a flaw to me.

[Zachmark571]

There is absolutely no reason to add desciptions into the game on the PC version. The mod makes it so that you can if you want to, use descriptions, but the people that don't want them can just not download the mod.
But on other platforms, descriptions are important, because you can't just press alt+tab and google it.

So either the devs use their time for something marginally bad and opinion based, or you know, they can make more content. The fact that YOU don't enjoy it, doesn't make it a flaw.
The fact that I enjoy it, doesn't mean it isn't a flaw.
You're being a hypocrite big time.
These are OPINIONS. When changes are made to a game, they derive from the players, and whichever side has more supporters (The people that think change is needed and the people that think it isn't) , gets to decide the needed changes. (usually at least)

[danica dorada]

choosing a cursed must be mandatory every cases

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by Zachmark571:

But on other platforms, descriptions are important, because you can't just press alt+tab and google it.

Which is exactly the point, this isn't just on PC it's on consoles too, and making the game better and more accessable brings in more money FOR more content. Considering that it wouldn't even take much time, especially if someone has already figured out a mod for it, sinks any argument that it would take away from making more content...of which only ONE dungeon type was promised by the kickstarter and they would have to make regardless.

While yes both stances are an opinion since neither of us are in direct control of the game, my stance is backed by logic and with realistic scenarios where 144 relics alone could cause issue without descriptions. Your's is "I just like it that way", and maybe if you could actually put logic to why you feel it is better the way it is you might have an actual point.

Also...maybe you should look up what 'hypocrit' actually is before you label people.

[JackBaldy]

Originally posted by Logickane:

Just gotta add... if you don't like games that have no item descriptions, you made a mistake purchasing this game. Do more research before you make your purchase, before you come onto the forums calling something a "flaw".

Many of us enjoy the idea of not knowing what your gonna get, and having to learn what everything does. Plus once you unlock the item with chaos gems(other than cursed relics), you have the opportunity to learn what they do.

I feel that the flaw with this logic is that this game isn't devoid of information completely. It does deliver information to the player, it just does so poorly. This is especially true when compared to third party work that puts their first party work to shame. Mods have shown that it isn't quite impossible to have better item descriptions and store descriptions within this game's current framework, so myself and others feel that this game should just come standard with these options.

I'd venture to say that the amount of people that enjoy being in the dark are far outnumbered by the amount of people that enjoy being informed. It's going to be a hard sell to say otherwise I'm afraid. O.o...