Last call for major issues

[nervous_testpilot]

Hello,

Thanks to your feedback and your support, we've been able to spend most of the last few months fixing issues with FS2. The game should now be thoroughly stable without significant problems.

For various reasons, we're going to need to move on from this phase very soon. So, this thread is for anything that you believe *absolutely needs to be fixed* in FS2, prioritising bugs. If there are issues that you believe are blighting the game, list them here in priority order and we will do our absolute best to fix them in one final significant patch as soon as possible.

After that, updates will be much more patchy and sporadic. I realise this isn't ideal - I know that there are a lot of feature requests out there which people will want to submit - but I'm putting out this call to make sure that the community has a chance to submit things you feel are critical.

We haven't been able to get significant testing feedback on the OSX version. If you'd be willing to test it, and you haven't signed up already, then please mail [e-mail]. Any help with this is greatly appreciated.

[Flameberger]

1 - Improve balance of mapgen. In Extermination opposing units often spawn very near to each other, depending on the unit types this can be strongly disadvantageous for one (Grenade near Shotgun for example.) In other modes the map often favors one side significantly, for example a charge game where one side can safely get much further on to the map due to terrain or unit types. I could go on and on but I think the point is clear, and is something that would be backed up by any number of serious players, I think.

2 - Fix the rating system. A simple ELO system that determines rating change based on the ratings of the players and the win / loss / draw result would be fine. The current system of linking rating change with the in-game scoring of the match leads to a number of issues. For example, a player with a large rating advantage winning by one unit in Extermination will actually lose points because the in-game score for such a result is so small. Additionally this system makes certain modes way better or worse than others for high rated players to attempt to increase their rating. Again with Extermination for example a high rated player will be grinding out peanuts worth of rating per win just to make any progress, or they could win a single high-bid Secure map and get 10 times the rating gain.

3 - Balance units. Turrets are borderline useless. AR is too versatile because they can cover close spaces nearly as effectively as shotguns while also having great range. Their minimum focus distance should be further away. Snipers are too powerful, their focus aim is so good that they can effectively camp doorways at infinite range, having cover to run behind as you advance is no longer an effective counter unless the gaps between the covers is very small. They should receive less of a time-to-kill bonus from focus than other units.

[CarThief]

Well, there are a few things that come to mind that can be kinda important to fix...

Like how i sometimes still encounter static, permanent clouds of gas on some maps, often after setting up patrols for a base/HQ, though it might be simply be a persistent remnant of my old save file and no longer a issue on new games. But so far it spawned normal no-vision gas clouds AND the toxic death-on-entry ones! In quite the supreme sizes too, compared to the tiny ones thrown out by their respective units. Like 2-3 times larger.
(Not 100% relevant, but speaking of gas clouds... Why can't the Knife unit attack inside them!? It's a KNIFE, if he's close enough to stab, he's close enough to see his opponent and hit em first, no? Would make knife guys more useful, if gas clouds gave em safe attack methods.)

And i guess most of the time the gas clouds appear in maps where i've setup a defensive formation in a HQ/Base, especially if you seemingly bring some toxic/gas units with you.

And while i don't know how to replicate this bug, and it's been a long while, i had some annoying issues with enemy snipers, and how they - what can simply be described as - CHEATED, like, cheated really, REALLY badly. Anything that got into their vision for 0000.1 sec DIED from sniper fire. As if they had a focus zone spanning the entire map, and had an even quicker time-to-kill stat than normal.

It occured on two occassions, once while i heard about the glitch where two players squads can be involved in the same battle, so i uh, had them travel together, and baited an AI into attacking an relic by passing by a checkpoint while the other squad was next-door on the street or so. And one occassion where i believe i was simply engaging an faction in a street battle (not my favourite places to fight, with the huge AI numbers and no cover to compensate...), i think in both cases it was Virgil's faction. I suspect loading a previous turn might've also contributed to this glitch. Or was it some kind of anti-cheat punishment that triggered (i mean, sure, i wasn't meant to stack squads, but what about the other time then)?

Hm, another glitch that comes to mind is that sometimes randomly-deployed units in HQ Defence (and possibly other defend/checkpoint engagements) are spawned randomly, even in places you can't normally place them! Had two guys spawn far away from HQ on some street, didn't even know i had em until i heard the unit-lost message. Probably better if the code makes sure they're spawned inside building boundaries or whatever?

Also dunno if it's a glitch that the AI keeps attacking the same base, over and over, no matter how well-stocked with guys it is, to the point where i put a EWS in it to have first-turn response and wipe em with sniper coverage while rocket guys eat their cover. Atleast that one glitch is fixed now, where typically one of the units EWS should've woken up stayed yellow, possibly kept following patrols, and was counted as "dead" in the end. Atleast the AI seemed to recognize the sheer unit strenght, and doesn't attack with a mere squad of 6, but stacks them, instead (at first waiting for 12, now for 16). Virgil doesn't give a crap and sends his 8-12 dudes in one squad though, albeit rarely.
(Edit: And my leader isn't even there, either! So why are they going for a 2nd-rate HQ...? With way less relics/bonds? Oh well. Having the AI vary it's targets would be nice though, and less dull, and cause players to not leave bases unattended lest they show up there in a bad time...)

Oh, i almost forgot! For some reason, crouched Riot Shield units get hit by Rockets! Do their shields not de-activate, or is their grenade/rocket hitbox still active but their shield properties not? Hm, who knows... I'd imagine it interferes with grenades, too.
Well, all of these issues where encountered in single-player, but i'd imagine some of them are still important enough to look at or even fix?

---

And yeah i'd have to agree with the sentiment that Turrets aren't very useful. Basically slower snipers, with notably less range then snipers, with a habit of getting shot down by assault/scoped units or even snipers before they get a shot off. And they're a bloody 120,000 credits!? I get that they can mow down a bunch of units in sight once they've "warmed up", but that warm-up period is so slow, most units kill them by virtue of shorter time-to-kill or getting close enough for the kill. Making them cheaper would perhaps be better, if all else fails?

[stabbyjones]

sound for linux. the crashes are rare now compared to launch.

[onnoh]

Originally posted by stabbyjones:

sound for linux. the crashes are rare now compared to launch.

Yeah, I don't know how hard the sound thing is to fix tho. If it's not too time consuming, getting that done quick would probably be everything we pesty linux players need to enjoy FS2 properly (and then fully streamlining the release for an official download on the store can be done later).

I imagine things such math is not quite as simple for Mode7 (is there the same problem with mac; are there more mac players to meet needs with first; priority with post-release dev goals etc.), but damn I'm itching for sound. sorry love u m7 team

[Tchey]

Yep, sound for Linux is the main and actually only thing i can think about, as it's quite stable already, and i didn't notice anything else that really kills the game.

[_Zevon]

I will try an keep this short.

1. Offline match making, so that I can set it up and wake up the next morning to a half dozen games.

2.A Mines need a rebalance, or they should be removed from MP.
2.B Turrets need a rebalance, or remove them from MP and add scopes instead.

In regards to mines, perhaps they should be "disarmable" if an enemy unit sits next to them.

In regards to turrets, they should be able to kill an AR if the AR attacks them with anything other than the focus diamond. Perhaps they should be able to kill very quickly to start, but each following kill is slower?

[Flameberger]

Couple more since there was another call for feedback:

- Improve the descriptions for the win conditions in multiplayer modes, a lot of them are very vague.

- Numerical distance values on the bid marks in Charge so players can better make informed bidding choices.

- Clarity improvements in bomb defusal, progress bars for planting / disarming, a visual difference of the bomb when it has been planted.

Don't necessarily agree with Zorbaz' proposed fixes but I do agree with the issues he presents.

[Coffee Break Hero]

you guys go to the discord suggestions panel!
1. raise an issue. A LOT has been raised
2. listen to the discussion
3. suggest a solution
4. listen to feedback
5. modify/apply solution
repeat
do this about 20 times for all the things that have been raised and I'll be much happier with the game

[Procedurally Generated Shitpost]

I've had a few stability issues concerning the main menu and alt-tab handling when in fullscreen mode:

- The OneTurn rankings seem to take up to 2 minutes to load. When this happens, alt-tabbing out may crash the game or render it unresponsive at least

- I have not been able to consistently reproduce it, but tends to happen after alt-tabbing as well (and once after exiting a match): instead of the menu screen I am left with a screen that cycles between the various shades blues appearing on the main menu screen, and the main menu window is not visible.

I will update this post if I manage to get a screenshot of the second issue.

I am playing at 1920x1080, fullscreen (not borderless), on Ultra settings, on a 15" monitor

[Flameberger]

As requested, here is a compiled list of suggestions, bugs and desired balance changes that I was able to collect from the past several months of discord chat as well as a bit from myself. Some overlap with things that have already been stated in this thread.

Bugs are indicated with !

- Unranked option when making multiplayer games with the Advanced options.

- If a player no longer has any units (but the game continues, this is possible in some modes), auto-prime their turns.

! Game result sometimes displays the winner's name as Synkora (minor visual bug)

! user TheRingBearer got an error "One of the players must be you!" when attempting to challenge any other user.

- Pathing is not very good at getting through narrow corridors, sometimes sets waypoints to ludicrous locations when trying. Is also bad at moving around terrain that has been destroyed. Very frequent cases of the pathing going unreasonably far out of it's way to avoid said destructed terrain, at least 1 reported case of pathing allowing waypoint to go through an area but then the unit gets stuck anyways.

- Many reported cases of combat not resolving in a way that anybody could understand. Best guesses so far are that ARs get some kind of a bonus from moving, sometimes even allowing them to win against an opposing unit that was completely stationary since the start of combat.

- No mines in Hostage mode, or possibly multiplayer at all, they are wildly unpredictable in terms of whether they will be op or useless.

- Fire and Minigun graphics often don't display properly in cases where only a thin line of fire gets through a tight space.

- In general utility units like shields, mines and smoke are finnicky in multiplayer, in particular no team should start with more than one of such units or you risk being horribly out-gunned.

- Now that we can see flamethrowers and miniguns that are firing in darkness our simulations should properly lock them in place if they are mid-fire at turn end

- Better options for players to take when given a bad multiplayer map. Possible examples: An option to re-generate the map (if both players agree), or some way for a player to indicate that they aren't going to play. Instead of the Hide Game option you could just have Cancel Game if it's turn 1 and you haven't primed a move yet, and then the opposing player could see that their opponent has canceled and thus understand they don't have any reason to bother with their turn 1 planning.

- A visible timer in-game would be nice for modes where a certain time in-zone is required to win

! In charge the turn count in the top right is often off by one, this can cause the attacking team to think they have more time than they actually do.

- FS1 allowed you to set colors for units of various teams, instead of being stuck in Green vs Red, bring that back pls.

----

Lastly, overall balance issues with units and some suggestions (Most of these have been said already, but I'll repeat them here.)

- Turret is too bad, give them a little better time-to-kill, rework them entirely, or remove them from multiplayer.

- Mines are wonky and annoying. A lot of times they are really bad to have on your team, sometimes they are op, even when they are balanced it's just frustrating to play against them because huge portions of the map might be mined after a few rounds of play. I would say just no mines in multiplayer. If we do want to keep them I would suggest make the mines visible even in darkness (like other explosives), the opposing team should always have a unit that can destroy mines (grenades, rockets).


The following are more debatable in my opinion:
- Snipers are very strong, a small reduction in the benefit they get from the Focus Diamond would be appropriate. Possibly also lower the time that they "remember" their aim time against a unit that has gone out of sight.

- ARs are very strong and very versatile at short and long range. Increase their minimum focus aiming range.

- Miniguns fire too quickly for how long their range is, even when opposing units focus diamond them they can safely pop out and fire. (Flames are ok I think because they have less range, so at least there's some difficulty in getting them in position.)

- Both Flames and Miniguns can re-fire too quickly after finishing one attack. (Just a tiny reduction here would be enough in my opinion.) It should be dangerous to be mid-attack at the end of a turn because that means you are locked into your action going into the next, however as is they can just re-fire immediately and the opponent barely gets a moment to counter them after the 1st attack ends.

- Smoke grenades should not be able to maintain permanent smoke, there should be at least a brief moment between when one smoke ends and when the next starts. They can be wildly powerful in modes like charge if the opponent lacks direct target AoE.

[Coffee Break Hero]

+1 to everything flameberger wrote, and:
1. add a (preferably post-game) option to view all the modifiers of engagements. this would allow the community to find delicate bugs over time, like sometimes we can't explain why a unit wins.
2. I love shields and smoke, just max them to 1 per player
3. I disagree with no mines in multiplayer, but you should find a way to balance them... defuse them in 3 seconds? shoot them 3 times? always give explosives vs mine unit is good too
*no mines in hostage though
4. I find snipers balanced, but we need statistics to solve that debate
5. do not remove the point system from winning. the "win the war not the fight" is fun. it does need balancing too though

[Enn]

Suggestion:

Make a drop-down list for all building types in skirmish generator.

E.g. "standard housing", "slum housing", "theatre", "mall", etc. This would basically make for endless scenario possibilities with friends or AI. Right now, if I am not mistaken, all you can do is mash the "generate new map" button and hope you eventually get something feasible. If you copy levels from dev folder to user level folder then there is no street layer making the map only half-functional.

If implemented I could very much see myself inviting more friends over to buy this game. This is I assume a simple fix that would drastically improve sandbox value of FS2.

[False Positive]

“We haven't been able to get significant testing feedback on the OSX version.”

That’s a shame. I’ve tested extensively and sent a few feedback emails (no reply). I found quite a few issues, one of which essentially BREAKS the game: Whenever I complete a certain Sonata mission (I did it 4 times already), it shows me the same messages from Belacqua and the Municipal Council, and then…the next incursion that pops up is the same mission, in the same place. It’s the one in the police station where you have to hold the central area with enemy units coming out from the dark zones all around. It’s on loop, I can’t go further than that.

If you haven’t got my feedback, I can resend the emails at the support@ address, let me know.

[Gordon Freeman]

Здравствуйте, товарищи!

Объясните пожалуйста как купить музыку из игры Frozen Synapse 2?
https://nervoustestpilot.co.uk/album/frozen-synapse-2-original-soundtrack
Простите, но я не владею английским языком, по этому не могу разобраться с вашим сайтом.

Заранее благодарю за помощь.
С уважением:
Федоров Виталий Викторович.

[Jacked]

Too late for this?

1) Everything I've said before: Build in mod support for UI in single player, Make a mode which emulates FS1 gameplay and rules, eliminate perceived rng (hard but it's there), split off an mp only version for social media in browser which links systems to increase popularity.

2) Balance: as Flame said, though I kinda like flamer shooting twice, if there was more *distinct* differentiation between AOE weapons it would be worth more, combined with vision/detection/sound differences

3) Turrets just don't work. Mines could be fun but Ive never got to play with them much. Use more interesting combinations of smoke with other units, give a slight direction lean to knife. Shields could be really interesting here. (can we do a slow move forward with a small duration on shield being up? only usable x amount of times, like rockets). Again combining with knifes interesting.

4) **Implement the "bad map" button**, one player presses it, the other agrees, match is regenerated. Stats are sent to bug tracker.

5) Build in Tournament mode. *tie to social media*

6) Leader boards adjust by game type.

7) Single player: the ton of suggestions I made before. Meaningful tactical roadblocks. Influences control and advantages. Easy split/group squad options. Easy weapons and merc buy. Mobile regen units/forward stations. Timers and clear information. Other satellite advantages. Real stealth options. Using early warning/distortion with units. etc

8) Implement a bonus for coming back from a defeat with one man vs many, which makes it worth playing, rather than accepting a defeat with less loss (boo). Never give up, Never surrender!



Thanks