Rating Battles

[Jackie Daytona]

For some time, I've wanted to try the rated matches. Unfortunately, I'm usually asleep/busy during the times they are "open".

Last night I finally got the chance to try them out. And it went horribly wrong.

Started out fine. Played my placement matches. Won most of them. Lost a couple at the end. The result? 2800 rating.

Really? 2800? Me? I'm at least as good as a 3200 player. But, whatever, right? I'll just earn my way up. How hard could it be?

Extremely hard. As it turns out.

It's probably best to divide this between how my wins and losses went. (I'd provide more info, and possibly screenshots. However, the servers appear to be down. Since I can't login at the moment.)

Most of my wins:

• Teams were reasonably balanced. With both having roughly the same quality of teammate and combined average rating.
  
• Allies cooperated. Generally moved as a group.
  
• Forced to make a sacrifice to protect against a flanking manoeuver.
  
• Allies fought carefully. Taking time, and making smart choices.
  
• Allies paid attention to pings. Responded to them.

Most of my losses:

• Enemy team had a significant advantage. In terms of better teammates and combined average rating.
  
• Allies separated and went all over the map. Picked off one-by-one.
  
• At least one ally would see things going poorly. In response, they attempted to hide and run out the clock.
  
• Multiple allies would take up camping/sniper positions. From which, they couldn't hit anything. (As all the action was occurring outside their line-of-sight.)
  
• Allies ignored pings. Usually in favor of chasing down one weak enemy... with half our team. (While the rest of us are slowly surrounded and massacred.)

In all cases, I did fairly well myself. Decent damage. At or above my average, mostly. Everything seemed to be fine. Until it got to the rating adjustments.

I've been losing a steady 25-41 points on every loss. While gaining only 9-18 points per win. Outrageous! It's completely unfair.

Even if I manage to get 50% wins? I'll still be losing points! And I'm not even doing that well. I've lost almost every match since my placement.

It has nothing to do with me. I've been winning a great deal lately. All my stats are climbing. More kills, more damage, more wins. Everything is improving.

Some of my teammates have been exceptionally poor. One match we had two guys that had less than 50% wins, really low average damage, and were rated around 1500.

The enemy also had two of those guys. The 4000-ranked players they threw to each side didn't help. Can you guess which two players dominated, and which four were dead weight?

This rating system makes no sense. You shouldn't lose extra points from battles in which you were the underdog. You should gain extra points from difficult matches. Instead, it's the other way around.

I asked about this in-game. One player (rudely) implied that the main factor is damage. Why would that be the case? That's an individual metric. Not a team metric.

If I am to be judged based on my individual performance? Let it be for my contribution as a teammate. Not because I picked a tank with high dps.

[BellatorMonk]

Without knowing your ingame name no one can assess your skills. The problem with Ratings at first is those first 10 Calibration battles. You will be placed with a very wide variety of people who are uncalibrated, bronze, silver, gold etc.
Once you are Calibrated you will still be placed with a wide variety of people because so many new people are constantly trying out ratings.
The only time Ratings seems to stabilize is a few weeks after the Ratings cycle starts. If you attempt to play Ratings at non-peak times you are guaranteed to get the worst teams and players possible 9 out of 10 battles.
Lastly, the game is filled with so many new players and existing crappy players that you will end up in a ratings battle with people who losers 60% of the time in almost 90% of the battles...then again...that any mode.
Welcome to WG Blitz

[milan.mrlian]

yes dmg is goal to člimb ! if have poor dpm your ratting points (RP) go down -- ally use to for spoting and dmg give them more points ! is čruel but is truth --- diamond use others for dmg ! but i no allow this and this is why i no play --- you must čhoose ! play and use others or help them (no play)

[Verachi]

Alright so theres a couple of things you might want to consider.

First of all, if you were playing decently you wouldn't calibrate at 2800. If you are doing 250 Damage/tier (250 x tier = good amount of damage), then you should calibrate 3200 or higher. I personally calibrated at 3600ish, ive worked my way up to around 4300, just at tier10, and while averaging around 2600 damage per battle. Obviously i could get to 5k if i really wanted too, after all i average around 3k per game on my 30d stats, but i dont in ratings because i dont try as hard. This is part of the grand problem, people just dont try in ratings. therefore, you need to carry your team and you need to independently do well in every battle.

Second of all, you wont lose more points on a loss than gain points on a win (while your less than 4k rating, once you start getting into the 4k/5k rating area, then you start losing more points on defeats). If you ARE gaining less points on wins while your rating is only 2k or 3k, then its absolutely your fault. If the game calibrated you at 2800, and your rating is still going down, then the game was right, and your also getting worse. Im sorry to say it, but its true.

last of all, ratings is meant for exceptional players. When you say "even if i manage to get 50% wins", that indicates that you are, on average, losing more than youre winning. If you consider 50% something good, then youre not good enough to play in ratings. You should be winning AT LEAST 55% of your games, and in reality you should be winning 60% of your games to be a good player and to be successful in ratings.

(sorry if i came down harsh, ive been playing for 6 years and ive seen alot in my time, i dont show mercy)

Good luck on the battlefield,
-Nothingness

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by _Nothingness:

Alright so theres a couple of things you might want to consider.

First of all, if you were playing decently you wouldn't calibrate at 2800. If you are doing 250 Damage/tier (250 x tier = good amount of damage), then you should calibrate 3200 or higher. I personally calibrated at 3600ish, ive worked my way up to around 4300, just at tier10, and while averaging around 2600 damage per battle. Obviously i could get to 5k if i really wanted too, after all i average around 3k per game on my 30d stats, but i dont in ratings because i dont try as hard. This is part of the grand problem, people just dont try in ratings. therefore, you need to carry your team and you need to independently do well in every battle.

Second of all, you wont lose more points on a loss than gain points on a win (while your less than 4k rating, once you start getting into the 4k/5k rating area, then you start losing more points on defeats). If you ARE gaining less points on wins while your rating is only 2k or 3k, then its absolutely your fault. If the game calibrated you at 2800, and your rating is still going down, then the game was right, and your also getting worse. Im sorry to say it, but its true.

last of all, ratings is meant for exceptional players. When you say "even if i manage to get 50% wins", that indicates that you are, on average, losing more than youre winning. If you consider 50% something good, then youre not good enough to play in ratings. You should be winning AT LEAST 55% of your games, and in reality you should be winning 60% of your games to be a good player and to be successful in ratings.

(sorry if i came down harsh, ive been playing for 6 years and ive seen alot in my time, i dont show mercy)

Good luck on the battlefield,
-Nothingness

Everything you're saying assumes that the rating system is flawless. That it never fails. That it can never be wrong. That it is an accurate judge of skill.

I contend, that it is none of those things.

I've run into this problem with other rating systems as well. In Heroes of the Storm, I placed fairly well. It's system, on the surface, is similar. I was mid-silver.

I just stayed there for awhile. Eventually I hit a losing streak. Eventually hitting the bottom of the ladder. Took years to work my way back up. Then I just dropped back again.

Was I a bad player? Nope. Compared to other players of my main, I was quite good. Far better than most. I used a popular stat site to confirm. I'm above-average in most categories. Except wins.

The problem there was matchmaking, and it's part of my problem in Blitz. In rating battles, I regularly get one-sided match-ups.

One recent loss featured a guy with around 4400 rating on the opposing team. While our best was under 3700. I get top damage at 2500 with my IS-3. I still lose 24 rating points. I'm lucky to gain 25 on a win.

If I don't "belong" in those matches? Why do I keep getting put in them?

I think it's absurd to put me up against platinum and gold players if I'm meant to be silver. Because even if I do a lot of damage and win? I'll be getting 16-25 rating points.

I mentioned 50% wins because: A) I'm getting less than that (but only in rating battles); and B) The unbalanced rating adjustments.

It's impossible to move up the ladder when you lose 20-49 on a loss and gain only 16-24 on a win. At 50% wins, you'll average downward over time. It's inevitable.

I did much better today. Got way more wins than losses. Moved back up a bit. It's going to take a long time to get back to 2800.

[BellatorMonk]

Because WG stats that that a Ratings match can have as much as a 1500 point difference per player in a match. However as we have all seen that is a lie and it can be much more although the average team rating is usually within a few hundred points.
Which is still crap because a team with two players at 4k and 5 at 2k are most likely not going to beat a team with seven players at 3k each.
The two 4k players are handicapped by 5 abysmal players.

That is WG logic folks. They are not the brightest when it comes to fairness in the MM and refuse to actually create a fair and balanced MM based on actual skill Ratings or not.

Get used to it and if you cant or wont be a 55% or better player despite the flawed MM system, you are simply better off not investing money in or playing this game overall.

Save yourself the frustration.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by BellatorMonk:

Because WG stats that that a Ratings match can have as much as a 1500 point difference per player in a match. However as we have all seen that is a lie and it can be much more

Yeah. Were it the case? I wouldn't be at 2500 facing against 4400. Under any circumstances.

Originally posted by BellatorMonk:

although the average team rating is usually within a few hundred points.

Even so, it tends to create one-sided match-ups. Just because it averages out, does not mean it's even.

Originally posted by BellatorMonk:

Which is still crap because a team with two players at 4k and 5 at 2k are most likely not going to beat a team with seven players at 3k each.
The two 4k players are handicapped by 5 abysmal players.

I disagree. Put me and a Platinum against a group of mostly bronze and a couple silver. We'll destroy them.

Give me all golds. Put me against a Platinum and Diamond with a bunch of silvers. We will lose every time.

Originally posted by BellatorMonk:

That is WG logic folks. They are not the brightest when it comes to fairness in the MM and refuse to actually create a fair and balanced MM based on actual skill Ratings or not.

The problem is their priority over queue time to fairness. They want to cater to the impatient rageaholics. Because those type of people will leave if they face long queues. Because those are the type of players that also get impatient and spend money.

I maintain that any rating system that puts you in an unfair situation should not also punish you for losing in that situation. Rating systems are supposed to predict the winner and loser. And then be modified if they are inaccurate.

Placing you in a bad situation is fine. Doing so and then penalizing you for it? Not acceptable.

Originally posted by BellatorMonk:

Get used to it and if you cant or wont be a 55% or better player despite the flawed MM system, you are simply better off not investing money in or playing this game overall.

Save yourself the frustration.

I'm at 55% in normal battles. Rating? There's no way.

The game sets me up for failure. Heavily punishes me for failing. Even if I'm the top player.

When I win? I get almost nothing. So, I get punished for losing AND winning.

This mode is broken. The MM doesn't work properly. The rating system is FAR from accurate at judging skill.

I should not lose the maximum amount of points for losing to a superior team.

I should not gain a minimal amount of points for defeating a superior team.

This is not fair.

[IBV]

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