AP vs APCR vs HE

[John Wick]

Hi guys, what is difference between these three, when should I use them?

I usually won't get APCR, so it is just AP vs HE for me

[EL_Din_46]

You will often need APCR to pen difficult targets, but you don’t need to spend gold on it. Click on the icon to the right to select credits instead of gold.

For a quick overview see

https://youtu.be/UFktFSJZPsQ

There are additional guides at http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/forum/64-general-discussion/ Or in the WG forum for your region

[Blegh]

AP or APCR(on certain tanks) is your standard ammo that you will use the most. As it does more damage than gold and more pen than HE. If you can't pen the target though, APCR, HEAT, whatever the gold ammo is for you is what you need to use(unless you can outmaneuver the target) Than if the enemy has paper armor that can be penned with HE, use the HE, as it has high amounts of damage

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

Originally posted by bwcamp:

if the enemy has paper armor that can be penned with HE, use the HE, as it has high amounts of damage

MOST of the time, Yes, use HE when you find thin armor...

there are a few tanks who's HE is marginally better, like to the point where it is almost useless (but sometimes a LOT cheaper) The price/damage/pen ratios vary from tank to tank, so, learn which ones are must use HE (T49 but $$!) and which are basically useless (AMX 12 t)

[OcGuy]

> AP is a standard issue shell with regular penetration value and delivers regular damage (damage of AP shell often depends on the gun caliber, the bigger it is means the more shrapnel it gets in post penetration>. It's a kinetic shell, which mean it relies on kinetic force to penetrate and lose penetration over distance.

> HE is another standard issue shell, it delivers high amount of damage that if its penetrates (mostly it lacks any good penetration). Useful for barely armored TD or Lighties. As it uses chemical reaction to inflict damage, it won't lose penetration. Usually HE yields low penetration, but some heavy TD such as SU series can deliver painful damage even on heavy target.

> APCR is a sub caliber rounds, it's like AP, but smaller and has higher muzzle velocity and penetration. Useful for heavy target but deliver lackluster damage (due to the lack of shrapnel after penetrates). It cost you quite high unless if the said shell is a standard issue shell (example: M41) PS: The penetration of this shell reduce even more than AP over distance. Keep in mind to engage target at considerably close-medium range.

> HEAT is another chemical round that act similar to HE, but hence of it's special traits, it can't go through obstacles. Penetration is barely affected by angle/oblique side of the tank but despite of that, the more oblique the target of the tank is, the less damage it'll cause. Just like APCR, HEAT is a premium shell that cost quite a lot.

> HESH = buffed HE with an interesting way to damage enemy vehicle

[Blegh]

Originally posted by BillyNair:

Originally posted by bwcamp:

if the enemy has paper armor that can be penned with HE, use the HE, as it has high amounts of damage

MOST of the time, Yes, use HE when you find thin armor...

there are a few tanks who's HE is marginally better, like to the point where it is almost useless (but sometimes a LOT cheaper) The price/damage/pen ratios vary from tank to tank, so, learn which ones are must use HE (T49 but $$!) and which are basically useless (AMX 12 t)

Useless? It has the highest HE pen of a tier 6 light, tied with T37....I wouldn't call that useless

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

I meant vs normal AP rounds, like, you might as well not switch. The HE rounds are BARELY cheaper, give you almost the same damage, but with almost 1/4th the penetration, so...

For the 12 t

AR
Pen <= 151
Dam <= 200
$109

HE
Pen <= 40 which is 0.26 of AP
Dam <= 219 barely 1.09 AP damage
$98 so 0.89

vs, lets say
T49

HEAT
Pen <= 160
Dam <= 700
$725

HE
Pen <= 79 which is 0.49 almost half
Dam <= 975 1.39 HEAT damage
$4800 so 6.62 times the cost

(<= less than or equal to) (not OOP code)


Meaning, that switching to the HE on the T49 is quite a bit more effective than switching to it in the 12t. Yes, the 12t has better HE than other similar tanks, but I would say the HE vs AP in the 12t with 75% less penetration for a possible extra 19 HP isnt worth the time it takes to check the color skin, whatever it is called

[Blegh]

Originally posted by BillyNair:

I meant vs normal AP rounds, like, you might as well not switch. The HE rounds are BARELY cheaper, give you almost the same damage, but with almost 1/4th the penetration, so...

For the 12 t

AR
Pen <= 151
Dam <= 200
$109

HE
Pen <= 40 which is 0.26 of AP
Dam <= 219 barely 1.09 AP damage
$98 so 0.89

vs, lets say
T49

HEAT
Pen <= 160
Dam <= 700
$725

HE
Pen <= 79 which is 0.49 almost half
Dam <= 975 1.39 HEAT damage
$4800 so 6.62 times the cost

(<= less than or equal to) (not OOP code)


Meaning, that switching to the HE on the T49 is quite a bit more effective than switching to it in the 12t. Yes, the 12t has better HE than other similar tanks, but I would say the HE vs AP in the 12t with 75% less penetration for a possible extra 19 HP isnt worth the time it takes to check the color skin, whatever it is called

Well, you should know whether you can pen it or not, most tanks at tier 6 that can be penned by HE are pretty recognizable
That said, 19 extra damage could be the difference between 1 less shot which wins a game, I mean lets say you get high rolls on the HE, that finish him off with 1 less shot than it would've taken for the AP? And what if he was shooting an ally, and that ally barely survived, at a one shot. And that ally was the only survivor at the end. You never know man, better safe than sorry

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

Just saying that some tanks have better HE to AP ratio than others.

Originally posted by bwcamp:

better safe than sorry

Which is why I lean towards my AP over HE near the end, I cant afford to have an HE deal 3 HP damage because it didnt pen properly... (Too often I have hit the squishy head of a KV for 1 HP damage...)

Early in the game, I tend to lean HE for early encounters, they are USUALLY against the thinner tanks, and, if I have time on longer reloads, I will switch to see the heatskin if the HE could do any damage, but later, when you are 1 light vs 4 heavies, I cant afford partial HE damage...

BUT like you said, IF I knew the game better, I wouldnt need to switch the heatskins and I would just KNOW where to hit them... but, until I can, I try to keep the HE for lights or for tracks.

[Blegh]

Originally posted by BillyNair:

Just saying that some tanks have better HE to AP ratio than others.

Originally posted by bwcamp:

better safe than sorry

Which is why I lean towards my AP over HE near the end, I cant afford to have an HE deal 3 HP damage because it didnt pen properly... (Too often I have hit the squishy head of a KV for 1 HP damage...)

Early in the game, I tend to lean HE for early encounters, they are USUALLY against the thinner tanks, and, if I have time on longer reloads, I will switch to see the heatskin if the HE could do any damage, but later, when you are 1 light vs 4 heavies, I cant afford partial HE damage...

BUT like you said, IF I knew the game better, I wouldnt need to switch the heatskins and I would just KNOW where to hit them... but, until I can, I try to keep the HE for lights or for tracks.

First off, don't shoot HE at KVs, unless you're in a KV-2...even then I don't think you can pen....I mean that you shoot shoot HE rather than AP against Nashorns, Toasters, Dicker max(maybe), ect. Tanks with paper armor, Ru 251, LTTB(to the side, but it is a tricky shot if it's moving, so that's debatable)Bulldog, T49(again kinda tricky armor layout for HE)

Yeah, when you know the game(I wish I did) than you don't need to check hitskin

Originally posted by BillyNair:

Just saying that some tanks have better HE to AP ratio than others.

Yes

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

Originally posted by bwcamp:

First off, don't shoot HE at KVs, unless you're in a KV-2...even then I don't think you can pen....I mean that you shoot shoot HE rather than AP against Nashorns, Toasters, Dicker max(maybe), ect.

ah, of course, I dont know why I never thought of those, I only ever did the lights, just hoping for a lucky pen (or check the skin while reloading). I knew the Nashs are squishy, but just never remember to hit them with HEs by the time the game develops enough to see them, that is what I will work on this week ;-)

[Blegh]

Originally posted by BillyNair:

Originally posted by bwcamp:

First off, don't shoot HE at KVs, unless you're in a KV-2...even then I don't think you can pen....I mean that you shoot shoot HE rather than AP against Nashorns, Toasters, Dicker max(maybe), ect.

ah, of course, I dont know why I never thought of those, I only ever did the lights, just hoping for a lucky pen (or check the skin while reloading). I knew the Nashs are squishy, but just never remember to hit them with HEs by the time the game develops enough to see them, that is what I will work on this week ;-)

Yes, but for tier 6, you are mostly right. HE is pretty much useless, except on certain TDs, and Lights. But if you have KV-2 or SU-152 in a top tier, than HE is king.

[John Wick]

I just realized after switching ammo to say HE in sniper mode, the shading of the enemy tank changes, I guess the more red, the more armor the tank has, and that shell will have tough time Pen the tank.

[Blegh]

Originally posted by John Wick:

I just realized after switching ammo to say HE in sniper mode, the shading of the enemy tank changes, I guess the more red, the more armor the tank has, and that shell will have tough time Pen the tank.

for HE, if it's yellow, it'll cause splash damage, if there is no hitskin, it'll pen and cause boom damage, if it is red, not even splash damage is possible