Is This Turn Based JRPG?

[Rossi1911]

If this is, I will buy it

[Big Boom Boom]

Yes, Square Enix funded this to test if people want old school turned based JRPG. Based on the whining we will get more action RPG in the future instead.

[Magnox]

my impression or is almost a remake of Chrono Trigger°?

[Geomancer]

Originally posted by Magnox666:

my impression or is almost a remake of Chrono Trigger°?

Not a remake, but does use the same gameplay system. So you could say heavily influenced.

[Geomancer]

Originally posted by Rossi1911:

If this is, I will buy it

Is it turn-based? Strictly speaking, no it is not. However it's close. It uses the ATB system if you ever played the SNES -> Playstation era Final Fantasy games or Chrono Trigger (it's most like this game).

If not, basically for each character there is a time bar that fills up and once full they can act. However, if you go into combat and wonder away from the controls the enemy will happy continue to attack you until you're dead even though your team isn't taking any actions.

If it's like the older SE games, there will be a 'Wait' setting which makes time pause whenever you are in a menu (for example items, or spells). So like I said, it's close to turn-based.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Geomancer:

Originally posted by Rossi1911:

If this is, I will buy it

Is it turn-based? Strictly speaking, no it is not. However it's close. It uses the ATB system if you ever played the SNES -> Playstation era Final Fantasy games or Chrono Trigger (it's most like this game).

If not, basically for each character there is a time bar that fills up and once full they can act. However, if you go into combat and wonder away from the controls the enemy will happy continue to attack you until you're dead even though your team isn't taking any actions.

If it's like the older SE games, there will be a 'Wait' setting which makes time pause whenever you are in a menu (for example items, or spells). So like I said, it's close to turn-based.

This is turn based, this is how us old jRPG veterans call Turn based jRPG with or without ATB bar, most of games back then had ATB bar of some sort.

[Bomoo]

That is NOT turn based. Don't be fooled, this game has REAL TIME combat. What some of you players of JRPGs consider "turn based" strictly speaking is not turn based. Turn based to a western RPG player means a hard pause for player decision making, as in a tabletop game. Chess, for instance, is turn based, even with timers, or any number of other tabletop or board games. This game does NOT have that, as I learned the hard way. If there is any element of hectic timing or reflex gameplay, it is absolutely not turn based in any proper sense of the term.

If I had known this wasn't a true turn based combat system, I likely never would've bought it.

Sorry for the necro.

[ZeroSbr]

Except it is turn-based. Every game with an ATB system is considered turn-based. ATB is an innovation in the turn-based genre. If you really want to take your time and strategize, set it to wait and don't dally outside of the menus. If speed chess is considered turn-based, then so is this. In fact, calling turn-based ATB games the speed chess of gaming is an accurate analogy.

[Bomoo]

Originally posted by Alucard:

Except it is turn-based. Every game with an ATB system is considered turn-based.

Not by me. They are textbook real time combat systems. If you have to wait for a resource bar to fill up, that is absolutely real time and not turn based. Again, maybe there's a difference in the understanding of the term between JRPG players and western RPG players, which is fine. But it's misleading if your background is in western RPGs and you feel like trying a JRPG out for once.

So my understanding of a turn based combat system is characterized by taking your time to plan, no time pressure, no reflex gameplay, no time-sensitive buttonmashing (i.e. momentum system). If you want to add a timer as in speed chess, that could be an option, but it's deeply frustrating that it isn't. Wait mode isn't realy turn based either, it's just less stressfully real time. More like real time with a limited pause, which is more like a real time approximation of turn based combat rather than proper turn based combat.

Again, as someone who hasn't touched a JRPG in his life, it was frustrating figuring out the combat system seemingly designed by aliens at first, but I got used to it quickly enough. Just saying that if a western RPG player asks if this is turn based, I'd argue it is hugely misleading to tell them it is.

[ZeroSbr]

Originally posted by Bomoo:

Originally posted by Alucard:

Except it is turn-based. Every game with an ATB system is considered turn-based.

Not by me.

Then you're wrong. The industry defines Final Fantasy 4 through 10 as turn-based RPGs despite using ATB systems, and so that's what they are.

[zefyris]

It's more of a mix yes. It takes from both, since it's a polished version of Chrono Trigger's ATB system, and that this system was intermediate.
Peoples usually still call that turn based, but you're right, it technically isn't fully turn based.
As for FF 4 to 10, many of them use a real turn based system without any ATB, so the comparison isn't proper.

[ZeroSbr]

Originally posted by zefyris:

It's more of a mix yes. It takes from both, since it's a polished version of Chrono Trigger's ATB system, and that this system was intermediate.
Peoples usually still call that turn based, but you're right, it technically isn't fully turn based.
As for FF 4 to 10, many of them use a real turn based system without any ATB, so the comparison isn't proper.

Except you're wrong. FF4 was the game that invented the ATB system. I'll admit, FFX does not use the same ATB system, but 4-9 definitely do. And yes, it is a real turn-based system.

[zefyris]

Yes and no. Ff4 to 9 used an atb system, but it had a huge difference : IIRC?; not a single one had combos. Why does that make a difference? Because except for a healer character waiting for the boss to hit again before acting, it was almost always more beneficial to act as fast as possible.
And since there was a wait mode available, for anyone anoyed by the non turn based component like Bomoo, you could effectively remove 99% of the "active" part of the FF ATB by just hitting the menu button every time a character was becoming available, and take all your sweet time to choose.

Chrono trigger however, you needed to wait if you wanted to do a combo, risking exposing yourself to the next enemy attack, you had to actually choose if that was worth the risk or not.
Even in wait mode, you can't just hit the menu right away and get away with it.

it's even more true in I am Setsuna, since the setsuna system (momentum) brings new level of decisions about waiting. Your best heals, best buffs, best single damage, best group damage, best debuffs are almost all coming from combos, and the setsuna system brings even more to that combo.
In I am setsuna you can decide to not heal right away and risk the KO of one of your character to get something more of a setsuna skill, or a combo skill, or even a setsuna+combo. In FF your healer is ready and one character is in danger, you heal. So in wait mode, it's almost completely turn based.

non-wait mode ATB in FF4to 9 effectively just add a difficulty component (you have to chose fast) to the turn based system.
Chrono trigger and I am Setsuna have far more depth in the "running time" and hence further away from being turn based.

[ZeroSbr]

Originally posted by zefyris:

Yes and no. Ff4 to 9 used an atb system, but it had a huge difference : IIRC?; not a single one had combos. Why does that make a difference? Because except for a healer character waiting for the boss to hit again before acting, it was almost always more beneficial to act as fast as possible.
And since there was a wait mode available, for anyone anoyed by the non turn based component like Bomoo, you could effectively remove 99% of the "active" part of the FF ATB by just hitting the menu button every time a character was becoming available, and take all your sweet time to choose.

Chrono trigger however, you needed to wait if you wanted to do a combo, risking exposing yourself to the next enemy attack, you had to actually choose if that was worth the risk or not.
Even in wait mode, you can't just hit the menu right away and get away with it.

it's even more true in I am Setsuna, since the setsuna system (momentum) brings new level of decisions about waiting. Your best heals, best buffs, best single damage, best group damage, best debuffs are almost all coming from combos, and the setsuna system brings even more to that combo.
In I am setsuna you can decide to not heal right away and risk the KO of one of your character to get something more of a setsuna skill, or a combo skill, or even a setsuna+combo. In FF your healer is ready and one character is in danger, you heal. So in wait mode, it's almost completely turn based.

non-wait mode ATB in FF4to 9 effectively just add a difficulty component (you have to chose fast) to the turn based system.
Chrono trigger and I am Setsuna have far more depth in the "running time" and hence further away from being turn based.

Ever played FFIV DS? Or FFIV in general? You need to wait if you want to do a Twincast combo attack, which typically does good damage. Are you saying that FFIV is more of an action-RPG because of this? I hope not, because it's definitely a turn-based game. The only real difference in combat between IAS and ATB FF games is how you can press a button when a gauge is filled up a certain amount to deal extra damage in IAS. Your logic is basically saying speed chess is not chess, which is false. Speed chess is chess that requires you to strategize in a limited amount of time, just like ATB systems in FF, Chrono Trigger, and IAS.

[zefyris]

I played all main FF games (by "main" I mean not including any game that has something else after the number,e xcept X2 that Iactuallyu just started yesterday ) from 1 to 10.

I wonder if you know what 'turn based" even mean.
Speed chess has limited time for playing, but that's just for increased difficulty. You just have less time to think, but that's it. That's same reason I said that an ATB system without any incentive to delay in its gameplay isn't that far away from turn based.
The game itself doesn't change its flow AND gameplay due to it. You just have to think and do it faster.
Whereas there's a clear and huge change of flow between normal turn based and complex ATB like in this present game.

[Natzor]

Originally posted by zefyris:

I played all main FF games (by "main" I mean not including any game that has something else after the number,e xcept X2 that Iactuallyu just started yesterday ) from 1 to 10.

I wonder if you know what 'turn based" even mean.
Speed chess has limited time for playing, but that's just for increased difficulty. You just have less time to think, but that's it. That's same reason I said that an ATB system without any incentive to delay in its gameplay isn't that far away from turn based.
The game itself doesn't change its flow AND gameplay due to it. You just have to think and do it faster.
Whereas there's a clear and huge change of flow between normal turn based and complex ATB like in this present game.

Don't think there really is much of a term for it, but turn based rpg's tends to fall into two categories (at least from what I have seen): Full on turn based and "pseudo" turn based.

In a full on turn based rpg, each player action is chosen with infinite time before the actual attack is launced. All actions from both parties is then perfomed in a sequence usually based on a speed stat that determines "turn order". Games like Bravely Default/Second, Final Fantasy 1, 2 and X falls under this category.

Pseudo turn based rpg's however, usually have some sort of time restrictment, like an Active Time Bar that determines turn order. In this case, speed usually determines how fast the bar charges up, and while not visible, enemies also use the same system. The sequence of attacks is then whoever gets their action off first after charging up the bar. FFIV - VII and IX (I'm basing it off games I have played mind you) is good examples of rpg's falling under this category.

Basicly in essense the games are all turn based rpg's but some give you all the time you need while others froce you to make decisions quicker. In the case of most true turn based rpg's you usually have to do the math to know who will move before the other (especially BD/BS where there is a hidden modifier that determines turn order and passive %speed bonuses aren't actually calculated in the stat menu in battle). Meanwhile in pseudo turn based rpg's it's usually pretty clear who moves first (maybe an exception on the enemy part).