Ending discussion (MAJOR SPOILER!)

[Verlindios]

Hello there people,

While I mostly enjoyed the game I find the ending however lacking or somewhat forced. We learned in the beginning that 'Setsuna' will be the 'sacrifice' which prepares us for her demise. In the ending however a alternate option appears in which we think she does not need to die.

We follow the 'Dark Samsara a.k.a. Youth' back to the past (which is very vague in and by itself) in order to finally defeat it or otherwise preventing it from altering the future for the worse. The point that I am having issue with can be taken from the following scene which is summarized in the journal topic [Towards the Future]:
"... The final battle then begins, in front of the Falling Snow Monument.
However, having learned of their enemey's pain, Setsuna makes up her mind to die together with the Dark Samsara, and asks Endir to deliver the finishing blow. After some agonizing, Endir makes his final decision."

She suddenly felt compassion for the 'Youth' and decided to die together with him? Why? It might be that this is some 'spiritual' or otherwise 'faith' related topic that I do not understand but I would think that dying together with him is very pointless. Primarly because her sacrifice will not change anything... she will not save or help anyone (not even the 'Youth'?) with this and it feels like this was put together to force her to die which results in us feeling 'sad'.


It might be that I am totally missing the point here but I was bugging me and I am curious to wat you people might think about this.

Verlindios

[huxley_wobb]

I definitely agree that the ending felt forced. And kind of didn't make sense. You can come up with some theories, but given what was actually said in the story, while you could tell what they were trying to build towards it didn't feel like it was earned. Especially because the main character's motivation throughout the entire game is fairly ambiguous and seems to come down to "Well, I want to complete the game, so I better do the next thing" :D Doesn't exactly make for an emotionally engaging ending, even when it is meant to be a bittersweet sadness.

I don't mind endings like that, or even the simplicity of the plot -- it's all in how the story is told that matters.


Still a fun game, and I'm glad I bought it. But yeah -- ending was the biggest dissapointment.

(came across this discussion because I was looking around hoping to find an expalanation that maybe I missed about the ending)

[SenSx]

I really liked the ending.

During the whole game I was hoping it would not be like FFX, I espected Endo to sacrifice himself for Setsuna.
But you find out that she had to die, afterall.

I did not find the reasons for her sacrifice stupid, because I understood she did this to prevent Dark Samsara from getting away and survive somehow.
And why not comfort him in the meantime ? this is Setsuna afterall, her final act of kindness.
It is not explained in detail, but I don't think it was needed, Endo and Setsuna knows it.

What about Endo ?
Is he trapp in the past, or does he is he back in the present when we see him walking in the snow at the end ?
I've red some theories about Endo being trapped in the past, and becoming Hasper...But it seems unlikely to me, since Hasper is indeed a monster (he lied when he said he was going to kill your companions and destroy the world to force Endo to defeat him, but I think the part about him being a monster is true).
I don't think he lied about that, because he was recognized by the king as the monster who offered the deal for humans.
I doubt Endo would ever do that.
I like to think he made it back to the present after the Dark Samsara dies, but who knows ?

[Funct]

I wasn't a huge fan of the ending, but only because it left so much that wasn't explained. If they had even had a line of dialogue that explained that without her taking the Samsara in and then being executed to die along with it, it could escape, it would have made everything make more sense to me.

I really liked the game in general, but it did bum me out that they missed out on some really potentially powerful moments (like Setsuna finding out that Nidr was her father... I waited so long for that and then it never happened! But come on, really? How insanely tragic is the idea of a father accompanying his child to his/her planned death? That could have been really touching).

For me the saddest thing was actually Aeterna dissipating, ha. Like I said, I really did enjoy the game. I just wish they would have made it a little more clear why, in spite of all the work the party did, Setsuna still needed to die. If it really was inevitable and necessary, they could easily have explained it without adding anything more than a few speech bubbles.

[SenSx]

They did not need to explain everything.
Explain the obvious, would have spoiled the emotion of this instant.
Setsuna knew she had to, and Endo knew it too, without the need of any words.

As for Nidr, it was probably hard, and tragic, but it was his decision, and probably the right one even if it pains him.
Setsuna has a burden on her, a mission to fufill, he can't just potentially spoil everything with a huge revelation like this.
Beside her true father is the one who raised her.

[Funct]

Originally posted by SenSx:

They did not need to explain everything.
Explain the obvious, would have spoiled the emotion of this instant.
Setsuna knew she had to, and Endo knew it too, without the need of any words.

As for Nidr, it was probably hard, and tragic, but it was his decision, and probably the right one even if it pains him.
Setsuna has a burden on her, a mission to fufill, he can't just potentially spoil everything with a huge revelation like this.
Beside her true father is the one who raised her.

No, they didn't have to explain *everything* in detail, but there is a fine line between explaining *everything* and literally explaining nothing. They alluded to the fact that the Sansara would have gotten away had Setsuna not died. They did not ever explicitly state that that was the case. And that's the problem. Some things certainly can be left to interpretation, but this wasn't just "some things." This is the entire question of whether or not Setsuna's decision was necessary, and whether or not her death had to happen. If you don't think that that is something that needs to be directly addressed, then I don't know what to say. I think the audience should be able to draw certain conclusions on their own. But a writer should also be intelligent enough to know that their audience shouldn't be able to say "There was literally no need for this to happen" at the end of a story.

[Bktwone Saonyx]

I really liked the story and now after reading this thread and replaying the ending with the few extra powerful spritnite on hard mode. I think I get it. There is only one thing that was never even uttered, and you don't come across it either; although, you can travel all over the world. I’ll get to it in a second, first the story and ending as I understand it.

Setsuna was set to die. In that village, I believe, all women prepare for that moment to come eventually since they are born. So when they are chosen, they can embark on that pilgrimage. A pilgrimage that teaches them what they are fighting for. The reason they are sacrificing their lives for. However, they never say how they are chosen. You learn later that the Time Judge uses their essence as a battery to keep her power going. So they are chosen by their magical potential. Most of this is inferred.

Most believe, that the moment the monsters are getting rowdier is the moment another sacrifice must be sent. However, as the Time Judge said, the method needed to change. Samsara was growing in power, unaffected by the time wounding. So a millenia ago, she deduced that eventually, the sacrifices won’t be enough to hold Samsara and a new solution must be enacted. Is why she created Aeterna and began trying options of how to defeat Samsara, rather than contain him.

So on the last try, it was now or never! Endir appears. From where? He was hired by Cornellius on Evil Jullienne’s orders to kill the sacrifice. Yes, but where does Endir comes from? Everyone seems to know of the Masked Men tribe and their mercenary ethics, to seeing a job until they are done. I was expecting to see others. The only other is Hasper, but he is not human, a monster that adapted the Masked Men look so that he could move around the world without people questioning him? Is what I can infer from his choice of ‘disguise’. The other thing is that once you get the airship and can go anywhere, there is no town or settlement for the Masked Men.

That is my only question, where did Endir comes from? The only thing I can think of, is that he appeared when the player comes into the story and he is pretty much immortal. Lives through that loop of time when he meets Hasper for a job, then Cornellius hires him for another job, then travels back in time with Setsuna to start over the story. Just that timeline of the story the player has access to. If this is Endir’s true identity, then that is pretty cool.

On to the ending. In my opinion, Setsuna takes in Samsara to show him affection, love, compassion, and any other feeling and/or experience she grew with and/or learned in her pilgrimage. Perhaps Samsara alone cannot be destroyed. Therefore, the only way to remove his existence and show him all he surely missed was for Setsuna to take him into herself and ask YOU to end it once and for all. She was set to do a job, however she cannot do it on her own, she needs YOU.

So YOU decide the fate of this world. Good or bad. Your decision doesn’t matter, either way she’ll move on and you will continue alone until that time the journey begins again when you reset the game and start over.

Taking this into account, I think this game is pretty much a masterpiece.

[J-Kitty]

The ending was hollow to me. Like to the point I regret playing it hollow. I feel incredibly unsatisfied. I understand it and yet it still feels like I wasted a good portion of my time on this game. Overall it was a good story and yet.. yeah in the end after all we've done... we've really done nothing at all.

[jordaninthesky]

Setsuna means "sentimental" in Japanese.