Chapter 6 is filler...

[PleaseSendMoney]

Anyone else feel that sixth plane is pretty much just padding? Nothing here advances the story or anything and you're just retreading old locations. To me it just artificialy extends the game.

[Talithmara]

Yes and no.

On the one hand: Oh, it absolutely just cashes in on pre-existing assets and is a lazy way to extend the game.

On the other hand: At the very least, you got to see more about what certain characters throughout the games are capable of. Renne mentions that Philip put up a fight against the Enforcers in SC, and it's nice to be able to actually see what he's made of. Also, Morgan and Cassius. Especially Cassius. Plus, this came with some neat interactions depending on who you brought along, so it wasn't all bad.

[LrdDimwit]

I can appreciate from a certain point of view what it's doing there: it is was designed by your adversaries specifically to jerk your chain and make you suffer, like everything else in Phantasma, only writ large. As the penultimate step in their plan, it needed to be suitably overwrought, or it will feel kind of anticlimactic.

But yeah, the big problem with it is that the plot falls off a little too much.

[Sheo]

I really enjoyed seeing all the old characters again, and it was real neat to see some of them fight, especially ones that we hadn't seen, like General Morgan, Phillip, and Kilika. And fighting Cassius was awesome, even if he was insanely tough, which does make total sense. I even redid the opening bit with Cassius, just to see how he reacted to each party member.

But I can see how someone could see Chapter 6 as more filler-ish, at least asset and location wise. But I felt like the character interactions were worth it. I haven't finished the game yet (I just started the Finale), I hope that all the characters who were summoned as bosses remember the experience as well, even though they were just copies made with their memories.

[LrdDimwit]

I doubt it. Copying a person's memories and personality into a new body makes a new person who thinks and acts just like the old one. Granted, magic and the supernatural clearly exist, so it's possible that the original soul was connected to the Phantasma duplicate somehow, but I doubt it. Celeste's copy continues to exist long after Celeste herself died, which would be hard to reconcile with this. And all the demons etc that you fight are pretty clearly just copies, not the real thing. The doppelgangers are as well.

The interesting (if very cruel) question is how self-aware these copies are, that get killed when Phantasma has no use for them anymore.

[Histidine]

In hindsight: Yeah I agree, a lot of Sixth Plane is fillery. And navigating the Bizzaro Erbe Scenic Route was a real headache.

But it does give some valuable closure for Richard's story. Renne to an extent too, if brought along for the fight with Schwarzritter. I also liked the Enforcers cameo.

The Cassius fight would have been a great throwback to the Lorence/Loewe fights from SC and FC in my book, if it wasn't so ridiculously stacked I ended up resorting to Earth Wall cheese. That kind of sucks the awesomeness out of an optional boss fight :|

[Play Metaphor]

Originally posted by Histidine:

In hindsight: Yeah I agree, a lot of Sixth Plane is fillery. And navigating the Bizzaro Erbe Scenic Route was a real headache.

But it does give some valuable closure for Richard's story. Renne to an extent too, if brought along for the fight with Schwarzritter. I also liked the Enforcers cameo.

The Cassius fight would have been a great throwback to the Lorence/Loewe fights from SC and FC in my book, if it wasn't so ridiculously stacked I ended up resorting to Earth Wall cheese. That kind of sucks the awesomeness out of an optional boss fight :|

You mean you did FC's Lorence without EW?

[Hagen2900]

Casting Earth Wall in FC's Lorence fight does nothing useful. Against Cassius it is very good but not strictly needed.

[Oguzhan]

Yes and no honestly.

Yes because it is literally the final step before we learn the truth about our villain but also no because it further emphisisez on our villain. How cruel. Literally copying people down right to their core and forcing them to do something they wouldn't enjoy or our members for that matter.

Josette having to fight her brothers for example. Not to mention they all know they will be cast aside when their job is done. It builds up tension. Also the clousures (Joshua , Renne , Richard etc...) and the amount of extra dialogue you get is nice.

Also come on we get to fight against all the people we ever wanted. Cassius , Morgan , Philip . Not to mention enforcer trio (the dialogue here if you have Renne is SO touching btw).

Soooo yeah it might be a little fillery but its good filler so I don't mind at all.

[PleaseSendMoney]

Okay, I haven't finished the chapter, but it's good to know it does eventually have some relevance

[Egres]

This whole game is a filler

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Egres:

This whole game is a filler

If you think that, then you've missed the point entirely. The game was in fact specifically made because Falcom felt there needed to be more character/worldbuilding before the already planned Crossbell games.

Firstly, the game does a lot of character building, and not just of Kevin and Ries. Most other characters get some development through the dialogues in The Garden and in the Doors which feature them. Of particular note are Renne, Alan, Schera, and Kloe

Secondly, there is a lot of worldbuilding done in this game. The main story is supposed to give us more understanding of the Septian Church in general and the Gralsritter in particular, while the Doors give us more insight into, amongst other things, the Salt Pale, the Epstein Foundation, Ouroboros, and the situation that Cassius was dealing with while outside Liberl in FC.

Thirdly, there are some important setups for later events being done in this game, most importantly the Renne situation, the Olivier/Osborne confrontation, Kilika joining the Rocksmith Agency and Campanella's debriefing.

Now, it is true that some Doors, like the Raven Door, the Maybelle/Lila Door, and the Orphanage Kids Door are largely fanservice with little actual relevance to the main characters, the world and/or the upcoming games. But to say that 'This whole game is a filler' is simply wrong.

[Oguzhan]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

Originally posted by Egres:

This whole game is a filler

If you think that, then you've missed the point entirely. The game was in fact specifically made because Falcom felt there needed to be more character/worldbuilding before the already planned Crossbell games.

Firstly, the game does a lot of character building, and not just of Kevin and Ries. Most other characters get some development through the dialogues in The Garden and in the Doors which feature them. Of particular note are Renne, Alan, Schera, and Kloe

Secondly, there is a lot of worldbuilding done in this game. The main story is supposed to give us more understanding of the Septian Church in general and the Gralsritter in particular, while the Doors give us more insight into, amongst other things, the Salt Pale, the Epstein Foundation, Ouroboros, and the situation that Cassius was dealing with while outside Liberl in FC.

Thirdly, there are some important setups for later events being done in this game, most importantly the Renne situation, the Olivier/Osborne confrontation, Kilika joining the Rocksmith Agency and Campanella's debriefing.

Now, it is true that some Doors, like the Raven Door, the Maybelle/Lila Door, and the Orphanage Kids Door are largely fanservice with little actual relevance to the main characters, the world and/or the upcoming games. But to say that 'This whole game is a filler' is simply wrong.

And even the Mayor and Raven doors still do character building, just not the main cast. MaybelleXLila, I ship it!

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

Originally posted by Egres:

This whole game is a filler

If you think that, then you've missed the point entirely. The game was in fact specifically made because Falcom felt there needed to be more character/worldbuilding before the already planned Crossbell games.

So what - if anything (I bet it is nothing though) exactly does the (extremely bad) main plot of the Sky the 3rd game have to do with any of the future games that came later?

Please list all the items from the main plot of 3rd that are relevant to later games, and explain how they are relevant...if any such relevance exists.

And if relevance doesn't exist from the main plot, then Egres makes a very excellent point.

Personally, I wouldn't go quite so far as Egres does to say "the whole game" is filler, since there are a few highly relevant stories inside the Doors (most especially the ones related to Renne).

But, probably 90%+ of the game is filler...especially the entire main plot, which is probably 100% filler.

So even if it's not entirely filler, the game certainly has way too much filler. No question about that.

[Koby]

If it was true that 90% of the game is filler... which I don't actually agree that it is...

Then it'd only be fitting since most of the Kiseki games are filled with stuff that could be classified as filler for the sake of padding the gameplay time. This wouldn't be anything unique to Sky 3rd actually despite you making it sound like it's some anomaly in the franchise.

Hell some people go as far as to claim everything in CS1 was filler up until the last couple segments; then they also claim most of CS3 is just filler created to mimic CS1 in order to prop up NC7.

What some classify as filler, others might classify as world building and character backstory.

Personally I feel like a lot of the most interesting scenes of the Sky trilogy actually took place in the 3rd. Really adds to the characters and showcases them more in depth than the first two games did.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

If you think that, then you've missed the point entirely. The game was in fact specifically made because Falcom felt there needed to be more character/worldbuilding before the already planned Crossbell games.

Originally posted by Dragon:

So what - if anything (I bet it is nothing though) exactly does the (extremely bad) main plot of the Sky the 3rd game have to do with any of the future games that came later?

Please list all the items from the main plot of 3rd that are relevant to later games, and explain how they are relevant...if any such relevance exists.

The main plot from Sky 3 is great. A bit slow to get going (as is the case in most if not all Trails games), but nevertheless great. Showing the personal hell that Kevin subconsciously desired for himself, then having him overcome it by confronting the traumas which led to his self-loathing as well as him learning to really open up to, trust and ask for the help of his friends and companions is wonderful storytelling. Not the most original in the world, but very well done.

As for the relevance to the later games, the main thing, as far as the 'Kevin' plot is concerned is giving further insight in the Septian Church in General and the Gralsritter in particular. These elements return multiple times in later games, most prominently in Trails to Azure and Trails of Cold Steel 3 and 4, so having the groundwork laid out in this game is of great help to understanding these aspects of later games.

There are additional plots developed in the main game, most prominently the Renne plot of course, to the point where I would call it the secondary plot of the main game, but there are others, like Alan Richard overcoming some of his own self-esteem issues and Olivier and Schera's deepening connection. These tertiary plots are quite subtle, but they are present.

And this is just the main game. There are multiple doors that are directly relevant to the later games, like the Renne Door, the Olivier/Osborne Door, the Campanella Debriefing Door, but also the Zin/Kilika Door, the Alan Richard Door, the Salt Pale Door, the Epstein Foundation Door and the Attack on the Erebonian Bracer Guilds Door.

Furthermore, the Doors that focus on Character Development, like the Schera Door, the Kloe Door, the Joshua/Kloe Door and the Bleublanc Door still enrich the world by deepening these character's history, personality etc., as well as show little pieces of worldbuilding, like the City Schera was living in when she was young, and which is pretty different in nature from what we have seen so far in Liberl.

And yes, there are some doors that are just fanservice, or 'filler' if you don't care for the characters in them at all, like the Maybelle/Lila Door, the Ravens door and the Julia door, as well as all the Sun Doors except the first. But these combined do not remotely make up 90% of the game, more like 20%-25%, if that much.