Simutrans

Simutrans

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omnius May 20, 2024 @ 8:13am
A Tale of Two Games
I've been playing around with both Simutrans and Open TTD trying to figure out which is preferable to play. While Simutrans has some features that are simpler I've found the game to be more difficult and frustrating to play. I played OTTD many years ago and found a few routing bugs that it appears may have been fixed over time but I was hoping Simutrans might give me a different take on the transport game which would be fun to play.

Convoys are easy to setup and get running once you know the exact sequence of steps to take but the lines can never be added to. In OTTD I can add vehicles by using the share command and just copy another vehicle's orders to share and if I change the orders of one shared vehicles they all share that same change. I also don't like the Conga Line Convoys because that bunches vehicles up and is rather useless for buses. Advantage OTTD.

Placing railroad tracks or roads is more difficult in Simutrans as we have to pick what speed of track or road we want whereas in OTTD we just place track or road which is so much simpler. Bridges tend to control what speed rules for railroads in OTTD. So track and road building are simpler in OTTD. Really tough to choose which road type in Simutrans to start out with when considering future vehicle speeds and not wanting to constantly upgrade roads or tracks ass faster vehicles become available. I really hate trying to find a broken rail track that stops trains from moving from one point to another, the little track blocked track symbol is way too small and difficult to see. Advantage OTTD.

In OTTD I can choose which nationality to have town names done in, didn't see how to do that in Simutrans. I can rename towns in both games but in OTTD I rarely need to unless I want to add some local flair. Advantage OTTD.

Making money in Simutrans is really tough. I tried using trucks and trains to haul freight from resource to factory to store to make money and I can barely get lines to be profitable but not by much, many times my income just doesn't cover expenses, especially for trains. I started out in both games in 1930 to have the same basic type of tech levels. My starting cash in Simutrans doesn't buy me much when it comes to trains. In OTTD I can build multiple rail stations and lines and I quickly start making good money by hauling freight by rail. Advantage OTTD.

In Simutrans I found that using trains really moved freight too quickly burning up available resources to move whereas in OTTD there seemed to be a better production rate which helped to sustain profitable routes. I even tried running electricity to a coal mine to increase production but it was intermittent at best. Advantage OTTD.

I didn't start in beginners mode in either game as I wanted to see how to make money without having a beginners fudge factor helping me. I tried multiple times to make profitable rail or road freight lines in Simutrans but I never found any satisfactory way to make money to be able to rebuild my cash to build new routes. I was able to set up multiple profitable freight train lines in OTTD right away and take advantage of completing larger more complex industry chains. Advantage OTTD.

I spent too much time in Simutrans being frustrated and wasted too much time trying to find that profitable start that eluded me. So its back to OTTD so I can enjoy playing a transport game that gives a challenge without being too challenging. I had fun in OTTD and I had more industry types available in 1930 which made it fun to read the map and see where I could get off to a profitable and enjoyable start.
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VanditKing May 24, 2024 @ 12:17am 
I have returned to Simutrans from OTTD.

Once you understand how to make money in OTTD, the game essentially becomes about copying money, leaving the player with the challenge of only preventing stagnation. Simutrans, in contrast, has excessively high maintenance costs compared to OTTD, making it difficult to turn a profit without using a calculator to some extent.

(Below is based on the Standard-128 Pack)

First, I recommend transporting coal to a thermal power plant. Even if the route is quite short (around 50 tiles), it is possible to make a profit. Coal and oil have a 0% speed bonus, meaning that no matter how slowly they are transported, the transportation fee per distance traveled remains the same. Therefore, using slow routes (which have lower maintenance costs) and slow vehicles (also with lower maintenance costs) can yield steady profits. Overcome any shortage in transportation capacity by increasing the number of vehicles.

You can also use trains. Since we are transporting coal/oil, use the slowest train with maximum output and configure it to be as long as possible (I recommend a 9-tile length) for round trips. This should generate enough income to start in the early stages.

Connect the power plant and coal mine with power lines to increase the coal mine's production. Then, expand the single-track railway to a double track to handle the increased production (but only do so when there is sufficient transport volume, as premature expansion to double tracks could result in high maintenance costs!).

Maintenance costs for railways and roads are not to be underestimated. In the case of the Standard-128 Pack (which is the standard gameplay), the annual maintenance cost for railways is equal to the cost of the railway itself! Therefore, it is better not to build railways unless absolutely necessary. Stick to slow routes and upgrade the rails only when needed.

The fact that all passengers and mail have specific destinations makes the game very interesting. Unfortunately, OTTD's CARGODIST does not work as reasonably as Simutrans. In OTTD, users can drop passengers off anywhere regardless of their intended destination. The logic for generating passengers at stations is solely based on the station's rating. This means that a company that frequently arrives in New York City can kidnap(!) all New York citizens and drop(!) them in a far-off small town, making a lot of money in the process. However, this is hard for me to accept.

Simutrans' destination system for passengers makes the game very challenging, but the UI is not very polished, and you cannot see where the passengers originate from, making gameplay ambiguous and difficult. (You can see where citizens of a city want to go by clicking on the city hall on the minimap and using the DESTINATION legend, but you can't see where each journey starts...) You will find that Simutrans' destination system is very logical and enhances the game's completeness only after setting up city buses, a terminal system, long-distance intercity trains, and intercity bus lines connecting small towns at the terminus. This presents an excessive challenge for beginners since you need to know how to turn a profit to reach this stage.

To summarize, my opinion is as follows:

OTTD is closer to a sandbox game where you have the powerful ability to freely design routes and control the flow rather than focusing on the economy. Dominate the world!
Simutrans is like a puzzle game where you thoroughly analyze the given environment to find profitable lines. Survive and adapt!
omnius May 24, 2024 @ 6:07am 
Thanks for the reply but I prefer OTTD and am enjoying making money in that game. Connecting coal mines to power plants makes a lot of money whereas in Simutrans it was meager at best. I may give Simutrans a try again later hoping there's some improvement in making money. I just had a frustrating time and want to enjoy not struggling to make money.
Deep Space Pine Jul 1, 2024 @ 11:34pm 
Originally posted by omnius:
Convoys are easy to setup and get running once you know the exact sequence of steps to take but the lines can never be added to. In OTTD I can add vehicles by using the share command and just copy another vehicle's orders to share and if I change the orders of one shared vehicles they all share that same change. I also don't like the Conga Line Convoys because that bunches vehicles up and is rather useless for buses.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but I'm fairly certain you can make and manage a 'line' with the 'Line Management' tool, you can edit the stops and you can add vehicles to that line.

I also had bunch ups due to the stops being road-based. I think I fixed it by building some station buildings/terminals for more 'parking' to avoid the bunches but I also had to tweak the stop point.

:winter2019happybulb:
kirby Aug 9, 2024 @ 7:36pm 
In OpenTDD - the game is stupid, so easy to make money.
Simutrans - I'm so stupid. I cannot make money at all.
kirby Aug 9, 2024 @ 7:40pm 
I really tried... Buses and trains. Different stop&wait strategies, no luck. I'm always under profit. There are no much you can do.
omnius Aug 12, 2024 @ 6:00am 
@kirby - Are you stupid or is this game stupidly programmed? While it is easier to make money in Open TTD it's also a lot more fun. The makers of this pathetic game need to make this game more fun to play or no one will play it.
kirby Jan 3 @ 1:54am 
@omnis - no idea, I’m bad at economics :D But completely agree with you regarding having fun :)
So far Cities Skylines is more balanced in engaging and economic challenges as for me.
But it’s not exactly a transport tycoon game.
kirby Jan 3 @ 1:56am 
Sorry for typo, mate
Huperspace Jan 3 @ 10:12am 
OpenTDD is for arcade player: Never having to think about money. Making money fast. "Nice" Graphics.

Simutrans is for real economic transport simulator players: You will always look for how to not loose money. You always have to optimise your network transport Cap, buildings,...

I play Simutrans (and Extended) for years and always tend to have 45-60% margin from 19th to 21th century. It takes a lot of network sharing and a big PAX network to get ROI.
Tracks costs so much that you need them having trains pass as often you can. (the more speed the much more costly) (bridges and tunnels are 10-20x more costly). Goods have destinations and tend to be overproduced, but consumers only take as much as they need (and store) (noobs just spam trains because supply is overcrowing the station, which stops as soon as the storage of consumer is full).
People have RND destination across whole map, so only after connecting a lot of towns (and having every townbuilding connected too), you will see enough PAX that your Bus network is too small and only then thinking about trains.
In Simutrans your profit is a lot smaller than the price of the vehicles. For Trucks that could be 2-10y and for trains that could be 40y until paid off.
Vehicles often only have driving cost ($ per km), so you have to make them drive full, else you loose alot.

In OpenTDD your Profit of one single "Coal" Route is as much as the Train costs. And you are soft/hard capped on transport vehicle count, whereas in simutrans you are not and can make use of 1000x and more tile maps.

I offer you to look into your dilemma, I prefer if you send the map at start and you dilemma state, so i can look into your mistakes and give you a better solution if it's already to late.
Last edited by Huperspace; Jan 3 @ 10:14am
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