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Rapporter et oversættelsesproblem
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THe tubby gunship transports, they feel very bad in an attack heli role, since all the guns only point forward. Even the AH-60L with the 30mm gun pod, and rockets, same as the Apache, isnt as effective since the thing has to fully swing around, where the AH64 just has to get around a little and let the turret move the rest.
Tried using the CH47 with the Grenade launcher and 20mms, that thing is utterly useless, the grenades are trash and the 20mms convergeance(and yes this game has it), renders those guns worthless. I flew into cap 5 on Afgan map, unloading 20mm from quite a ways out on the AA positions, got clear up into the cap after putting maybe 200 rounds into each of the AA spots, didnt kill ♥♥♥♥ cuz lol convergeance...
Not that I've noticed, and the game doesn't really give me any numbers to go off of. I just expected Attack Helicopters to be the ones carrying the most firepower, but that doesn't seem to be the case a lot of the time. The Gen 2 Cobra certainly doesn't carry a great deal of firepower at all. In fact, it feels like Gen 1 Transports have more firepower with their 132 rocket racks.
To be quite honest, I've not really noticed much of a difference in durability between various helicopters. It SEEMS like the Apache and the Super Jolly Green Giant take more fire to bring down sometimes... But then I get shot out of the sky from 100% health in a single shot without warning from something I can't identify.
In fact, sometimes I can fight ground troops, eat a TON of Heavy Machinegun fire and lose only maybe 30% health and other times I get shot about 5 times by the same enemies in the same helicopter and get the "Critical Damage!" warning.
I'm using the terms Gunship and Attack Helicopter interchangeably. Maybe that's improper terminology, but Attack Helicopters are the ones I'm failing to find a distinct role for. Some of them are fast and manoeuvrable, but then there are helis from all classes which fit that role. Some of them are pretty tough, but there are plenty of pretty tough Transports. Some of them have lots of firepower, but then so do pleny of Transports and Scouts with Mortar Teams in play can do pretty well for themselves.
Yeah, see I thought that might be the case initially, as well. I thought the Attack Helicopter class was unique in having powerful, turreted guns with superior range. Except that's not really the case. A number of Transports also have Turreted guns, such as - again - the Chinook and the Russian bus-helicopter. And I'm just speaking off memory here. And then again on the flip side, there are Attack Helicopters without turreted guns, like that Black Hawk one.
Guns pointing forward is an invonvenience to be sure, but it mostly comes up when fighting infantry, at least in my experience. If I'm trying to take down an LZ's defence force, I can typically hover out of range of their fire where the hull tilt necessary to fire down can be counteracted by the "back" button, ensuring a relatively stable hover.
I've not played PvP (nor do I plan to), so maybe that's a thing? Turreted guns might be superior in a dogfight, but again - not all Attack helis have them and some Transports have them for good measure.
Gun convergence generally doesn't botther me, at least not once I figure out where the gun's actually hitting. In a lot of cases, I have to aim sideways of my target, but it's usually pretty simple to figure out. It doesn't help that the only US Gen 2 Attack heli has a 7.62 minigun which has a hard time dealing with vehicles and the upgrade to get a larger gun gives you a turreted grenade launcher and a Gun Pod machinegun.
Then again, I try to avoid doing strafing runs unless absolutely necessary, so maybe that's part of it. When given the opportunity, I'd rather fire from out of range of enemy emplacements, which makes adjusting for convergence easier via the damage confirmation indicator. That can obviously be misleading since it flashes up for hitting inert buildings as well as actual combatants, but it's generally useful.
I've been trying to avoid addressing these kinds of comments since they just invite "Well, then you shouldn't be talking!" replies, but I don't own any peripheral control devices besides mouse and keyboard. Not even a gamepad, not one that works at any rate. I'm also generally not interested in those kinds of control schemes to begin with. I find Heliborne perfectly fun and enjoyable with arcadey control. I've done my time playing with more realistic controls in older Battlefield games and such. It's not something I'd do if I had a choice in the matter, which I do in this case.
Having the firepower and being able to effectively employ it are two different things.
If you're shooting at long range at stationary targets that hardly shoot back, sure, having more ammunition is an advantage. If you're in a position where you have to be mobile a heavy transport sucks.
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That's probably the module damage system coming into play. Bigger helos are simply easier to hit though. They're going to take more fire.
It is incorrect, and by evidence of this thread, you're causing confusion doing so. The term "gunship" does not refer to a dedicated attack helo.
Attack helos blow stuff up and SURVIVE it better than most other choppers.
If you fly and fight an attack helo the exact same way you fly and fight a transport, obviously the transport wih a bajillion rockets will win out. Fly the attack helo like an attack helo and you'll see its strengths.
You seem to be expecting that attack helos fight and fly the exact same way as transports. They don't.
Fly them like attack helicopters and you'll very quickly see what role they fill.
Fly a transport like an attack helicopter and watch it go BOOM.
Whereas in an attck helo, I don't hover. I run in at 200 Kph, do a strifing run, turn around and come back if I didn't kill everything in the first pass. Again, I don't fly it like a transport.
Is this a "better" way to do it? Maybe, depends on your situation and team mix. I've found on some maps it's almost impossible to hover and not be shot at.
Possibly, I don't play PvP either.
On the contrary, playing KBM in this game is perfect and has some huge advantages over a HOTAS (like zero order precision). I just happen to enjoy flying HOTAS more, that's all.
Like I said in a previous comment though, I didn't appreciate just how different the choppers were until I decoupled yaw and roll (also having a non-binary collective is amazballs). And decoupling those controls lets you really unlock the maneuverabity of attack and scout helicopters.
The Battlefield flight model is far more arcade than Heliborne.
You seem to be expecting that attack helos fight and fly the exact same way as transports. They don't. Fly them like attack helicopters and you'll very quickly see what role they fill. Fly a transport like an attack helicopter and watch it go BOOM.
How? What does "fly them like attack helicopters" mean? In what way do Attack Helicopters fly differently from Transport or Scout helicopters? If you're just referring to doing strafing runs, all helis are able to do that, though obviously with varying degress of success. What exactly am I supposed to do in an Attack Helicopter that I'm not supposed to do or do differently in a Transport Helicopter? That's what I don't understand. The most optimal way I've found to play - in the sense of taking out vehicles, emplacements and infantry - applies to Attack and Transport Helicopters both.
I don't know about "better" but it's certainly more dangerous. My Apache has the range and firepower to wipe out entire bases along with their infantry and vehiclee escorts from well out of their range and with minimal use of non-replenishable resources. In fact, if I get caught in enemy fire (such as infantry spawning immediately underneath me), I'll typically dive, disengage back to a safe distance and shell them from long range.
Hell, if I have a scout who doesn't throw himself onto the enemy base to be eaten for breakfast by flak emplacements, I can wipe out Infantry, as well - all at next to no danger to myself or my team-mates. The only time I find strafing runs to be worth it is if I'm caught against ground troops immediately underneath me, in which case I'll swap to dumbfire rockets and pepper the area. In general, though, I try not to be shot at unless I absolutely have to and it's worked well for me so far.
Which is fine, in the sense of personal taste. I won't argue with that. I'm the sort of player who'd play racing games, fighting games and everything else with keyboard and mouse. Even the old MAME arcade cabinet stuff which has really awkward diagonal detection making half-circles awkward in the extreme. I guess if the Attack/Transport distinction is primarily aimed at flight sticks and other peripherals then I guess I can see that.
But my point here is this: The difference between Transport and Attack Helicopters isn't NEARLY as pronounced as the difference between Scout Helicopters and "everything else." I went through Gen 1 with very rigidly-defined class roles and expected to have as clear of a role for the "new class" when I got to Gen 2. I didn't find that to be the case at all. Part of it is I REALLY don't like the Gen 2 Cobra. The 7.62 autocannon is cool for infantry, but there's SO much armour in Gen 2 I feel compelled to either swap to the 20mm Gun Pod or else swap to an entirely different heli for my "attack" slot altogether.
See, the thing is I went for very distinct Helicopter roles in Gen 2. My Gen 2 Scout has a 7.62 minigun and a consolation prize of rockets which always run out before I kill anything, but it's pretty fast and agile - it's why I chose it. My Gem 2 Transport is the Super Jolly Green Giant with some RPG troops in the hull. That thing's basically unarmed against anything beyond infantry, so it's not going to be killing tanks and APCs, either. The only heli I have capable of dealing with armour is my Cobra, and THAT isn't great at doing so, either - this was the surprise which got me.
I don't know what I was expecting out of Attack Helicopters, but I just couldn't find a significant enough difference to make an informed decision. Even the guides I've read struggle to come up with much of one. Guess I'll have to balance my squadrons heli-by-heli.
Honestly, it feels like all Helicopters are too fragile. Dudes with assault rifles on the ground can chew through my hit points remarkably quickly regardless of what I'm flying... Though again this may be "weak points" coming into play. It's why I adopted a tactic of non-engagement. If they can't shoot at me, then my durability doesn't matter :)
Here's something I've noticed. All the ground fire in this game will attempt to lead target. Makes it easier for them to fast-moving hellies at a distance, but much harder to hit nearly-but-not-completely stationary ones. I've noticed that I can easily dodge ground flak, RPGs and heavy machinegunners my hovering very lowly and changing directions roughly left-up-right-down in a circle. Ground fire will attempt to lead but constantly overshoot. I still take some ground fire, but I can hover over flak flak emplacements for quite a while if need be. That's what I do when trying to land mortars or TV guided missiles while under fire.
That's not to say that my approach is better, just that I've had really poor experience trying to outrun or outturn ground fire at high speed.
I don't know much about military stuff, but helicopters, especially the early ones, should have no or only little ammo. If I remember right it would be too heavy.
Keep in mind that this mostly works at long range where flak cannons need to compensate more due to projectile travel time. Most helies can't change directions fast enough at knife fighting range. Works very well for my strategy of hovering a long distance away from an LZ and raining fire at it. In fact, I'll often close distance to deliberately provoke ground fire since then I can aim at the muzzle flashes without necessarily needing a scout to mark them for me, too :)
If gives new players an idea what to expect from a specific model before even unlocking them.
The three classes may overlap, but a denotation of intended purpose is very much a valid and needed guide. Knowing which heli is a scout alone is a very important distinction (die too much to MANPADs? Perhaps you need to get a scout in your lineup).
"Transport" denotation is not just about carrying troops. Unless your personal experience proves otherwise, you should assume that it's a helicopter that you probably should not try to fly straight into the fight - or at least not against enemy attack helis.
Finally, an attack heli should, frankly, come with a warning for new players "won't capture things, won't detect things, and you probably will still get shot down anyway" >.>
In experienced hands these are very unpleasant to encounter, but the player needs to know how to leverage their strengths.
Take as an instance your comment comparing a Cobra with the upgunned Chinook. The difference between the two (in actual in-game performance, rather than "on paper") is huge. If I see several enemies, I generally target ACH and other heavier hauler helis first for the simplest of reasons - they are easiest to take down. Compared to a Cobra, ACH has huge hitboxes. It's also slow and waddly, so the chances of you avoiding my fire in one, even at long distance, are very slim to next to none. A Cobra, on the other hand, not only has much smaler hitboxes (quite likely smaller even than UH helis), but it can also throw in fast maneuvering to avoid incoming fire altogether.
This comes into play even in Co-Op - the survivability of a Cobra under direct fire is much, much greater than that of an ACH.
Spray the LZ at max distance - as soon as even a single bullet hits an AA emplacement, they will start (very inaccurate) return fire. Then you know exactly where to pour on the hurt :)
Once you learn the maps you can go around simply firing into the known emplacement positions without markers.