Which faction has the most/best fliers?

[Fendelphi]

I have taken a quick look at the wiki, but it is hard to get an overview of which faction has the best fliers/strongest air presence.

Any feedback is welcome.

[Karol13]

Dragons.

But due the accessibility, I also liked puny imps + succubi + deamons.
One can usually get them early in the game and together they can dominate the skies and ground altogether.

Downside: all three need similar resources (and just summoning them would not be competetive enough)

While dameons are strong, they take 4 army points and can die much faster than dragons (who also take 4 army points)

If you support these flyers with some cheap infantry, assaulting enemy lines can divert their power from flyers to the infantry, what can give you enough time to take down towers with most of enemy units.
Sadly, very few Daemon units are resistant against piercing damage :(

Other option I tried, were Fearie Dragons, with their fire attacks... despite they die fast, if you build up their numbers and focus their attack and/or use hit-n-run tactics, they can pose a serious threat to much stronger enemy armies and even towers.

Playing the Fey race has huge downside -> they have defense weakness.. their towers are just for fun and their units have little to none HP... so you would be in constant offense -> what is the only effective defense for Fey IMO. And also you would need to fight for resources.

Dragons -> basically each race has them (if not turned off), but to get to Nest Tier 3 takes it's time, and after that you still face 2 major problems: dragons are trained very slowly and cost a fortune :(

As a mid-step I tried Pterodaktyls... but these bastards, despite being sturdy and strong and yet cheap... attack only buildings and other flyers...what a let-down.

Griffons -> their Cleave attack can wreack havoc to enemy armies, but again -> their resistance against piercing is low and their slashing damage is weak against buildings.

Pegasi -> now we have flier, that is not so expensive, only nest tier 2 is needed AND..tadaaa... he deals crushing damage (great against buildings)... what's the catch? these bastards still die fast... fater then it is possible to train them... so again, like with demons -> you need infantry to soak a lot of damage...
Good thing is, that there are skills that boost Pegasi a bit (Beastmaster)

Also, what type of hero you want to play:
Fast fighter that will capture many mines
Caster (summoner/destroyer/illusionist)
Charismatic leader that will make all your unit attack faster and better...

That all impacts also your airborn army options.

Oh, and Harpy -> never liked them (despite their skill of mana stealing could be super useful)

[Fendelphi]

Thanks for the time and effort you put into writing this! :)

For now, I have settled for a Wood Elf Summoner, playing as Barbarians.

I have found several benefits to this combo:
1) I get to summon a lot of Imps to harass enemies(that Freeze crit is nice too), and smash towers/small armies that do not have a lot of support. They are also perfect for creating a screening force for your hero to escape from an ambush.

1a) I can also cast SoulHarvest to get some melee fliers in the form of Succubi, although that is more mana intensive.

1b) If ambushed, you can also simply cast "Home Portal".

2) Barbarians get the summon mana III research, making it possible to spam spells quite easily.

2a) Elves have lore, increasing their total mana by 10 per point(equal to 3.33 Intelligence investment), which combines very well with Summon Mana III giving you 300% mana regen. The Summoner class also have access to Ritual(+5% casting chance per skill point), if it is needed for higher power levels of spells(although I will probably let gear cover that).

3) Barbarians have Riders and Warlords, which both benefit from the Phantom Steed spell(gives extra speed, armor and resistance), making them much faster and tougher.

4) Barbarian Pegasi are the most upgraded Pegasi, with + 6 to combat, extra armor, and other upgrades.

5) The Wood Elf hero eventually get the "Sky Rune" skill, which increases the Hit(life) of all fliers by 5% per skill level. Just 10 points in it, and all your Pegasi, Lightning Hawks and Dragons become much tougher.

5a) Buying Daemons or Archons from neutral buildings will also gain a higher health value from Sky Rune.

5b) The Wood Elf hero also gains access to Nature Magic. A few points investment allows you to heal allies, slow down enemies or summon Unicorns, which benefits from Phantom Steed and can heal and cure your other units. Suddenly, your Pegasi never dies.

6) A few points(4) in Elf Slayer means that your hero and your melee units deal increased damage to 3 of the factions.

7) The summoned Quasit is a better builder than Thralls(12 compared to 8), so can speed up your early game quite a bit. When their duration is about to run out, you can throw them into the mines.

8) With this hero, you can also play effectively as:
- The Knight faction(lots of cavalry to benefit from Phantom Steed, Imps helps their bad ranged attack, Quasit are better builders than Peasants, Archons and other fliers still benefit from Sky Rune).
-The High Elves(2 cavalry types to benefit from Phantom Steed, both Pegasi and Wyverns for fliers, Quasits for mines).


I havent played a lot with it yet, but it has been very satisfying so far.

[tapobu]

Ssrathi pteros are some of the best base crushers in the game. I love them. They don't require a ton of micro cuz they ignore ground and go straight for the goods. Barbarian pegasus also brutalize buildings after upgrades due to crush damage.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by tapobu:

Ssrathi pteros are some of the best base crushers in the game. I love them. They don't require a ton of micro cuz they ignore ground and go straight for the goods. Barbarian pegasus also brutalize buildings after upgrades due to crush damage.

Thanks for the input. Playing as Ssrathi is definately also an option.

[Japapa]

Fey have inumerous flying units, and with the upgrades they can be menacing.
High elves have plenty of them as well, it's seems that it's their most numerous meelee units

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by I wish I were a bird:

Fey have inumerous flying units, and with the upgrades they can be menacing.
High elves have plenty of them as well, it's seems that it's their most numerous meelee units

The issue with Fey fliers is that they are very vulnerable at all times. Even if you amass a decent horde of mini-dragons(which is relatively expensive for what they bring), they can be easily countered by archers or a few, powerful fliers(or spells).

Both Wyverns and Pegasi are strong, but High Elves cant really upgrade them much. High Elves have decent(if slightly expensive) units, but not a lot of good upgrades for them and a lot of overlapping units(units performing the same role/use the same damage type). Their best "win" units are either Archer spam(like most elven archers), Cavalry spam(Dragon Knights+Unicorn support), or Caster spam(surprisingly fun with a high level High Elf hero).
Their fliers are ok and do their job, but other factions "do it better", and it is more risky compared to the other strategies.

[Joe the Bartender]

Depends on hero level or if there's a hero at all. Pre-Sky Rune, a Daemon Summoner playing Daemons is almost certainly the best. Post Sky Rune ofc the Wood Elf Summoner gets much stronger. In no heroes mode, the Fey become the best flier race over time (with Income/Leprechaun & Unicorn support).

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Joe the Bartender:

Depends on hero level or if there's a hero at all. Pre-Sky Rune, a Daemon Summoner playing Daemons is almost certainly the best. Post Sky Rune ofc the Wood Elf Summoner gets much stronger. In no heroes mode, the Fey become the best flier race over time (with Income/Leprechaun & Unicorn support).

A valid point.
Still, Daemon Summoner does not really add anything to the summoner class, except for the ability to eat souls.
A stronger early Hero would be the Dark Elf Summoner(synergy with Summoning, and access to Lore).

[Joe the Bartender]

Daemon Summoners are better early game due to Might of Ctharos. Dark Elven Summoners make up for it mid-game with Summon Mana III & later on, Meditation I-III. Daemon vs Dark Elf is like powerful rushing vs sustainability/reliability.

I wish I could install vanilla WBC3 again because I'd like to test whether Succubus' can create Souls from Critters and player-owned Thralls/Quasits from Slavehorde. If that works, that could substantially change the Daemon Summoner's gameplay and make them a bit more viable later in a game (paired with the right race).

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Joe the Bartender:

Daemon Summoners are better early game due to Might of Ctharos. Dark Elven Summoners make up for it mid-game with Summon Mana III & later on, Meditation I-III. Daemon vs Dark Elf is like powerful rushing vs sustainability/reliability.

I wish I could install vanilla WBC3 again because I'd like to test whether Succubus' can create Souls from Critters and player-owned Thralls/Quasits from Slavehorde. If that works, that could substantially change the Daemon Summoner's gameplay and make them a bit more viable later in a game (paired with the right race).

I think we are talking past each other a bit here. :)
I am talking about the heroes themselves, not the daemon faction(units/upgrades).
You can play as a Dark Elf Summoner(hero), as the Daemon faction, so you are getting the early summoning bonus and lore from the Dark Elf hero, with the daemon upgrades from Daemon faction(or compliment a faction with poor air power to counter a weakness).

On the steam version, critters(sheep etc.) have no "soul".
I also dont believe it works against your own units(your succubus killing your own units), but havent tested it myself.

Unless you have a retinue of high level succubi, it is not really worth it to use them in large numbers(unless you are Wood Elf with Sky Rune), as they have fairly low stats for their cost.
Ofc, if you can ensure that they get the killing blow, you could summon a few while in combat to get a few souls, but overall it is not a mechanic you should build around. It is just a nice bonus.

[Joe the Bartender]

Souls might be something that can only be abused in 1.03. Otherwise, Delf or Welf playing Daemons it is! (depending on desired hero level)

[Talivon]

try demons