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Like Glukhovsky wrote: "Beauty can save the world.".... or at least gamers.
No-one is complaining about the nudity itself. Have you missed that part of this discussion?
Nudity in itself does have a part in video games as it does in the real world. But there has to be a reason to implement it, and in this game there is no reason as to why you should have the possibility to pay for a lap dance or have sex with Anna. A sex scene shoehorned in, as this one is, is bad storytelling, leading to a worse game.
This has nothing to do with morals, aversion to nudity or prudeness. The sex scene just does not have any relation to the rest of the story. Sure, it's a way to secure that there's a kid at the end, but it's a terribly poor way. They could have made Artyom and Anna a lot more complex characters, which very much could have lead up to them eventually having sex.
How they did it was boorish and vulgar.
Why would it be unrealistic to explore the station? Artyom is looking for Pavel, who does not know he's followed and might very well be situated in the bar himself. Why should he hurry? He knows where he's going and he knows when he has to be there.
Why would it be unrealistic to buy weapons and ammo? You need it to survive in the Metro.
Why would it be unrealistic to listen to people who might have information about the whereabouts of your target, about the situation at other stations etc. Information that might make your journey through the Metro a lot easier.
Why is it unrealistic to have a lap dance?
The strippers themselves are not unrealistic, as I am sure women would be exploited in this universe. Artyom having a lap dance is unrealistic, as it just does not take the story any further. It does nothing to evolve Artyom's character as does say releasing the prisoners or returning the teddy bear. There is nothing pointing towards Artyom being the kind of person who would casually visit a strip club. As a means to losing moral points, there are so many better examples.
Sure there are such women (and men for that matter) out there, but does Anna strike you as such a woman? If that is part of her personality, it sure as hell is not explained.
Wouh, wouh, wouh! Slow down there for a sec, cowboy, would you? If you ain't got the patience, don't take part in a discussion. Especially if you know, your answer might lack respect therefore... It's a matter of manners. Furthermore, calming down before discussing, might make you actually look at what people are actually saying...
I never said, that Anna is such a girl, who gives herself lighthearted to a random guy passing by. I just pointed out, that there are girls out there, who are willing to do so for much less then Anna did with Artyom, who just saved her life.
And as much as I didn't compare Anna to a "two bit skank", I'd please you not to talk of Artyom as an "old random guy". We all know he is far from that, even though the delevopers cut the good ending from Metro 2033 out of the history of Metro: LL. He's been through quiet some trouble not just to safe his station, the metro and even the Dark Ones. He showed, that he, too, is a "capable fighter, [somehow] confident and independent", as you pointed out the characteristics of Anna.
Isn't there somebody a bit do idealistic and dead dreamy about Anna being some sort of white maiden? Sure, she is introcuded as the well-protected daughter of the Spartan leader and the assumption comes to mind, she might've been a virgin to the point, she "thanks" Artyom for saving her. But we don't know for sure. She very well can already have sexual experience, and if so only to be trouble for her dad when she was still a teen.
Furthermore, why should you know, if it wasn't Anna's decision, out of her "strong-willed, self confident and independent" mind, to thank Artyom the way she did? Ever thought about that possibility? Who said, it was Artyom taking her, and not her forcing him into the make out?
AFAIK at least some participants in this discussion where arguing about the fact, they put in nudity at all, and not why they have put it in that way. But sure, let's cancel the argument about violence/nudity in video games and focus on this paticular sex-scene being off-road for some of you.
Ever heard about personal taste? Sure, the developers could have make the relationship between Anna and Artyom a much bigger part of the game, so you could've accepted this scene or a similar one. But then, somewhere developers have the set the cut, so the game doesn't go all epos. After all it's still an FPS. And the glimps of a sex-scene wasn't intended for more, then to give some background story and a neat little extra to the shooting stuff. If you want a full-grown romance, why look for it in such a game in the first place?
On the one hand, you're saying the sex-scene doesn't have a relation to the story, but a second later, you demanded, that the developers should have spend more time on the relationship between Artyom and Anna. Maybe this scene was meant as a metaphor for the last one, being put in this short glimpse, so it doesn't weight the pace of the game down?
Furthermore, concerning vulgarity of this scene. I don't know what kind of games or movies you normally play or look at, but me (and again here comes in the personal taste) find this glimpse of a sex-scene in no way vulgar. Ever heard of the "Hot Coffee"-thing from GTA: San Andreas. That was vulgar and didn't give anything to the story. What we got here is far from that and more an artistic trick.
You missed the part about good and bad karma, I was talking about. The developers make it, so the lap dance actually gave you bad karma, cause it implied you got "better" things to do, then the hunt Pawel down. Therefore it is as much unrealistic or realistic as the rest of the things, you can do at the station.
Artyom pretty much knows from the start of the station entering, where Pawel is going to. So no need to look for him at the bar (especially having too much alcohol to ransack the place and get positiv karma for giving the bartender bullets afterwards), or listen to all the people (especially kids in the last corner of the station, who surely don't know a bit about Pawel). All those things drive the story as far as the stripper scene does. At first glance, not a bit. It's just to give the game some extra content, so it doesn't feel like a Rail Shooter. But on the other hand, all those little extras, which seem kind of ill-logically at first, have an impact on your karma, which very well got a major impact on the game.
Paying the stripper says as much about Artyoms character as freeing the prisoners: Both are optional and decisions made by the player, who want to play Artyom the way they want him to be. Just as much as it's player decision to go guns blazing or splinter cell on the enemies.
It's a game after all, shaped by our decisions, not the characters. If you want well cut out characters, who got a bare life of their own without you tempering around. Don't play games. Read a book or look at a movie.
I'll tell you the same, I told Tuskan in this post: I never compared Anna to easy to lay women. I just pointed out, that some women give in to men for less. Furthermore, from what we know from Anna, we can't deny, that it's her volunteer decision to give in to Artyom for what they've been through together.
Wow.
I knew people were desensitized to violence, but... damn. That's disturbing.
Picasso, for example, he was a poor artist barely selling his arts on the street. No one recognized him. But do you know how he got this famous and get all the praise by his BS arts that look like some dog drew with its paw?
It's because he tricked moronic rich people. At that time, lots of rich people often gathered in the art exhibition and praised/bought "splendid" arts, when in fact they didn't know a ♥♥♥♥ about what art is. Most of them were just blinds who pretended to have taste in arts and know what is good and bad.
One day, Picasso displayed his weird-ass drawings at one of exhibitions, and then disguised as one of rich people. Then, he talked out loud about "how mervelous this art done by Picasso is", "whoever this Picasso is, his skills are amazing", "I'm here to buy his arts", etc in front of other people. After that, those morons bought his lies and went ahead and bought Picasso's arts. The words spread, and he became famous. That's how he started drawing those weird styles of drawings and became world popular.
Anyway, back to the topic, I don't think the sex scene with Anna has that deep meaning behind it, but it's not just a simple fan service either.
The debate is about the gratuitousness of nudity, and violence for some part, in this game but not the very nature of nudity and violence. So yea you've entirely missed the point.
Alright, which part was gratuitous and why.
Go on, you wanna tell me I'm wrong, prove it.
With the earlier comparison to the Witcher, how does sex not fit into Metro? When the end of the world happens and the human race is barely survivng having kids is kind of a big deal and important.
Overall, there is a reason this game is rated mature. It says nudity/partial nudity right in the rating so if you have an issue with it, thats no ones fault but your own.
Implementation, implementation, implementation.
Everything comes down to how it is implemented. Just being there doesn't make it gratuitous, it depends entirely on how it is implemented.
That is our argument. Stop arguing against us like we think all nudity is bad and start addressing the above.
However as I've said above, the kid has a very high chance of being the 'by-product' of said sexual engagement. If you can recall the whole plot and majority of the interactions, there is no supported evidence on both Artyom's and Anna's sides showing us that they have plans on starting a proper family. No sane person will want to raise kids with an other at the point when he's already embarked on such a paramount mission.
The two have a grand total of three separate encounters IIRC. Judging by Anna's dialogues she has just about reached the mark of beginning to have much strong feelings for Artyom. After the kidnap, Anna is very likely to be impressed by Artyom's relentless pursuit. Also under the impression of having an abrupt end for their lives due to the virus exposure, she can't possibly hold back her emotions at that moment. Thus the copulation has happened naturally, after all it's a human nature.
In conclusion, their relationship will be assuredly stable at least for a short future if Artyom has survived the final encounter and Anna bore the child of Artyom. No doubt it is stronger and richer than an average one-night-stand. Have they really fallen in love? Not quite and we don't know base on the available info. The feelings of Anna for Artyom will grow by no small amount through the birth and raising of their child in the coming years. But the problem is, at that very moment of willing to engage in sex, can the engagement itself be classified as casual? I believe it can, since there're no solid relationship existed beforehand. Consider it as true then the fact of showing the breast of Anna is not an absolute necessity and can be as easily represented by having Artyom lower his body onto Anna and the screen fades out. Therefore the nudity, for Anna that is, can be said as gratuitous.
Btw, there is a distinction between able to accept nudity in a mature game and unnecessary presentation of sensitive body parts. A prime example will be the very brief nude scene in the movie Riddick(2013). Sackhoff is forced to show her breast for a few seconds because some dumbass is brainwashed by the "tits ALWAYS sell" rule and put the enforced condition into the contract.
I have not read anywhere that the nudity itself is the problem. Please point this out.
Nice ad hominem moment.
One could of course argue that violence is always gratuitous, but this game is about a guy trying to survive in the Metro while a lot of people want to kill him. This makes the use of violence necessary if he wants to survive. The sex scene in its current setting is not necessary for the story of this game.
Other than the Picasso story probably being total bull – there is no meaning about the sex-scene. It's a game developers poor try to sell more games by adding something they think men want from a game. I'd call it a fan-disservice as it makes the game worse.
If it has nothing to do with Anna, then why even bring it up?
Artyom might not be an ”old random guy” to you as a player. But you are not Anna. As far as we know he is just that random guy to her as there is nothing else to the story. Sure, she might know about him from before, but is that enough for her to sleep with him? I think not.
Whether Anna is a ”white maiden” or not is irrelevant. We have already agreed on the fact that she is not the sort of person who would sleep with someone carelessly. So why does she do just that?
Yes, some people don't mind sleeping with whomever. And the point is not whether that is a good or a bad characteristic, it is totally irrelevant. The point is: is it likely that Anna does that? It is quite obvious that Anna is the one taking initiative, not Artyom. But there is no incentive for her to do that.
Why aren't we told why she wants to sleep with Artyom? In its current state the scene brings nothing but confusion. There just is no logical explanation to why she should want to sleep with him. It does not make sense. This moment is bad storytelling in an otherwise good game.
Conclusion: Anna would not sleep with Artyom under these circumstances.
Do you, by personal taste, mean that just because people like sex, developers should put it in their games for no reason? Well, people like all sorts of things, why not put those in every single game too? That is just bad reasoning.
The sex-scene in its current state has no relation to the story. There is no reason why Anna should want to sleep with Artyom (or Artyom with Anna). IF there had been a reason presented, i.e. if the developers had spent a short time developing the relationship Anna-Artyom, the sex-scene could have had a sense to it, and could be related to the rest of the story. Now, no reason is presented to why they should want to sleep with eachother, which is insufficient storytelling that leads to confusion and malcontent.
It's obviously Anna's own decision to sleep with Artyom. However, that decision is not explained and does not make sense in an otherwise good story. The scene is implemented because the developers think that male gamers want to see boobs.
Their relationship does not have to be big part of the game. But an explanation to why Anna should want to sleep with Artyom would have been good. That does not force the game to ”go all epos”. We're not looking for full-grown romance. We're looking for a good game, with a good story. I really hope you can see the difference.
Sex as a metaphor for their relationship? As far as we know, the relationship between Anna and Artyom is very shallow, they barely know eachother. Sex is a terrible metaphor for a shallow relationship. Thus, the sex scene has no relation to the rest of the game.
I urge you to look up the word vulgar. There are more meanings to it than pure visual obscenity.
It definitely is not black or white like that, just because another game is a lot worse (I don't know the ”Hot Coffee-thing”) that does not mean everything not as bad is acceptable.
What is the ”artistic trick” to this scene? I find it nothing but a vulgar way to satisfy male gamers with nudity, because the devs think that's what men want.
Where did I miss the karma? I even pointed it out (although, I called it ”moral points”) and argued that the lap dance is a poor implement of the moral points system. Did you even read what I wrote?
Even if he ”pretty much knows”, he doesn't know where Pavel's going or when he's going to be there, or for that matter how Pavel is getting there. Artyom does not know. Pavel MIGHT be at the bar, he MIGHT have been killed by shrimps or he MIGHT have been captured by Reich or whatever. Artyom does not know – which is why you need to explore the game.
I really don't see how the stripper scene evolves the story. Helping a child or the prisoners of the kz do tell me something about Artyom as a good person, in the same way stealing or murdering defenseless people tell me something about him being a bad person. Does having a lap dance make you a bad person? I don't think so, a sleazy person maybe, but not bad. A person's likelyhood to murder, steal or being generally unhelpful does not make him or her more or less likely to visit a strip club. It can not be compared to the other moral-point situations, it's bad implementation of that system, there to satisfy a need for nudity that some devs think men have.
I strongly reject this statement. This is a tragic view of computer games. A view often shared by those who look down on computer games as being childish and stupefying. Why must the fact that it is a computer game stop it from having an interesting and well made story? In the same way there are good and bad storytelling when it comes to books and films there are good and bad storytelling when it comes to computer games.
If the characters personality made no difference, why not just use Winnie the Pooh in every single game?
Let me put it like this: It's a game after all, shaped by your decisions and the personality of the characters. If you don't mind badly composed stories, gratuitous sex or flat characters. Don't play games. Watch porn.
The fact was I was actually irritated by a guy on my friend's list I was trying (very, very hard) to help update his PC. My irritation was not directed at you at all.
Thanks for the condecension though.
Yeah, there are girls out there that would do that. Anna isn't one of them, so what relevance does that fact have here? How else am I supposed to take you bringing up an irrelevant fact as a primary support for your argument?
Similarly, there's no such thing as a strong, independent character giving thank you sex. That doesn't happen. A ♥♥♥♥♥ will do that, because to a ♥♥♥♥♥, sex is just a commodity to be traded.
But a strong, independent person like Anna values their body more than that.
So what it comes down to is Anna having sex with Artyom because she is attracted to him. Given her personality, she's not one to lay down with just anybody, but according to the game, Artyom is still just "anybody" to her.
Hence our argument.
Strong women don't give thank you sex. If they are attracted to you, if they genuinely want to bang you already then you save them, sure, they'll have sex with you.
But a woman who otherwise doesn't want to bang you won't do it just because you rescued them. This has nothing to do with virginity or innocence.
You have a very distorted perspective on what real women are willing to do for what. If you weren't trying to compare Anna to easy women, you shouldn't have brought them up. Otherwise, that's exactly what you've done.
And again, there's no such thing as thank you sex. Only testosterone-fueled action films have it, and none of the things that happen in those films actually happens in real life.
A relationship could be started out of a traumatic event, but actual sex happens later. It's not save life -> have sex, it's save life -> start dating -> have sex.