When Should I Stop NF'ing Craftsmen?

[froggycomeback5]

I play as the Philippines, and it's very easy to industrialize since there's only three states, two of which have good enough population to work in factories. By the early 1870s I have an industrial score of about 75 with five level 5 factories in the two main states. I've been NF'ing craftsmen since 1840-1 so I'm getting up to 25% craftsmen in my two main states.

My question is when should I stop setting the national focus for craftsmen? 25% seems pretty high already and would be taking a lot of people away from the RGOs.

[Jimmy McGill]

You'll probably wanna get some clerks if you at 25% craftsman.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Well the biggest deciding factor would be your answer to the following two questions: Are your factories profitable? And do you think they'll remain profitable with more workers and expanded if needed? Because you wouldn't want to have them keep growing just to require more subsidies would you? I mean you can if you want I guess to increase your industry score, alternatively if you're not subsidizing you'd just be creating unemployment if they become unprofitable.

Unless if you value your RGOs due to them being valueable resources then don't worry about that, that's what your colonies are there for. If you don't have any colonies, then you should try getting some! Hopefully you managed to get some of the pacific islands if nothing else, early 1870s there's a scramble for them just like in Africa.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Sinnaj63 eredeti hozzászólása:

You'll probably wanna get some clerks if you at 25% craftsman.

Good point.

[froggycomeback5]

Sinnaj63 eredeti hozzászólása:

You'll probably wanna get some clerks if you at 25% craftsman.

Ah, thanks. That and capitalists too. But it would take a very short time with the national focuses to get the ideal amount of these. I'm wondering what else I should set my national focuses to afterwards.

[froggycomeback5]

richnathaniel9419 eredeti hozzászólása:

Well the biggest deciding factor would be your answer to the following two questions: Are your factories profitable? And do you think they'll remain profitable with more workers and expanded if needed? Because you wouldn't want to have them keep growing just to require more subsidies would you? I mean you can if you want I guess to increase your industry score, alternatively if you're not subsidizing you'd just be creating unemployment if they become unprofitable.

Unless if you value your RGOs due to them being valueable resources then don't worry about that, that's what your colonies are there for. If you don't have any colonies, then you should try getting some! Hopefully you managed to get some of the pacific islands if nothing else, early 1870s there's a scramble for them just like in Africa.

I do have to subsidize my factories, I'm #10 in world ranking but am shifted between American and Japanese spheres of influence. The subsidies aren't very large considering the ~1k income from my colonies (yes, I do have Brunei, Bali, Vietnam, and Formosa), but admittedly I don't micromanage factories that much. I haven't paid much attention to what could be most profitable to produce so four of my factories are cement and glass, the other is steel (I have state capitalism). My tariffs are also 100%, but since I'm within a sphere of influence I don't know if that impacts those imports.

Could someone clarify when you should start lowering tariffs to encourage more capitalist control in the economy? Or with such a small country as the Philippines (3 states) is it easier to just build them yourself. Still, I'd like to know the real effect of tariffs on profitability of factories.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

froggycomeback5 eredeti hozzászólása:

I do have to subsidize my factories, I'm #10 in world ranking but am shifted between American and Japanese spheres of influence. The subsidies aren't very large considering the ~1k income from my colonies (yes, I do have Brunei, Bali, Vietnam, and Formosa), but admittedly I don't micromanage factories that much. I haven't paid much attention to what could be most profitable to produce so four of my factories are cement and glass, the other is steel (I have state capitalism). My tariffs are also 100%, but since I'm within a sphere of influence I don't know if that impacts those imports.

Could someone clarify when you should start lowering tariffs to encourage more capitalist control in the economy? Or with such a small country as the Philippines (3 states) is it easier to just build them yourself. Still, I'd like to know the real effect of tariffs on profitability of factories.

Tariffs only effect your factories if they rely on imports for raw materials like coal for your cement, glass and steel factories, you need a lot of coal it looks like. :) Being in a sphere of influence does effect imports as it puts you in the same market with the sphere leader and all his sphere members, often this means sphered nations don't get anything from tariffs as your nation is able to get it's needs met within the sphere market. Tariff income is mainly from citizens importing goods to meet their needs, so focus on lowering taxes first once you can afford that. Lowering taxes often results in more tariff income as they spend the money they use to spend on taxes, now on more imported goods!

[froggycomeback5]

richnathaniel9419 eredeti hozzászólása:

froggycomeback5 eredeti hozzászólása:

I do have to subsidize my factories, I'm #10 in world ranking but am shifted between American and Japanese spheres of influence. The subsidies aren't very large considering the ~1k income from my colonies (yes, I do have Brunei, Bali, Vietnam, and Formosa), but admittedly I don't micromanage factories that much. I haven't paid much attention to what could be most profitable to produce so four of my factories are cement and glass, the other is steel (I have state capitalism). My tariffs are also 100%, but since I'm within a sphere of influence I don't know if that impacts those imports.

Could someone clarify when you should start lowering tariffs to encourage more capitalist control in the economy? Or with such a small country as the Philippines (3 states) is it easier to just build them yourself. Still, I'd like to know the real effect of tariffs on profitability of factories.

Tariffs only effect your factories if they rely on imports for raw materials like coal for your cement, glass and steel factories, you need a lot of coal it looks like. :) Being in a sphere of influence does effect imports as it puts you in the same market with the sphere leader and all his sphere members, often this means sphered nations don't get anything from tariffs as your nation is able to get it's needs met within the sphere market. Tariff income is mainly from citizens importing goods to meet their needs, so focus on lowering taxes first once you can afford that. Lowering taxes often results in more tariff income as they spend the money they use to spend on taxes, now on more imported goods!

Thank you for clarifying that! Right now my effective tax rate is 23%, so even though I set all taxes to 100% its as if people are only getting taxed 23%. Once it becomes more efficient I can start setting it to lower rates.

Do you have a suggestion as to setting taxes? Should I tax the richest the least (I guess it doesn't matter since I don't have any capis and am building the factories myself), the poorest least, or set the rate for all classes the same?

Also, could you explain the difference between global and local markets?

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

froggycomeback5 eredeti hozzászólása:

Thank you for clarifying that! Right now my effective tax rate is 23%, so even though I set all taxes to 100% its as if people are only getting taxed 23%. Once it becomes more efficient I can start setting it to lower rates.

Do you have a suggestion as to setting taxes? Should I tax the richest the least (I guess it doesn't matter since I don't have any capis and am building the factories myself), the poorest least, or set the rate for all classes the same?

Also, could you explain the difference between global and local markets?

Well early on it's good to lower taxes on the middle class to help out your artisans, but as you industrialize more it's better to lower the rich so capitialists can build more. If you're trying to get more capitialists, then I think it's good to keep middle class low so they can easier afford to promote to capitialists but I'm not entirely sure on that. Same for poor if there are middle class pops you want citizens to promote to I guess, but what Vic II player cares for their poor?

As for the markets, the local market is the combined market of your nation and any nations within the same sphere of influence (whether you're head of it or not) and the global market is made of the surplus exports of every nation outside your local market.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

froggycomeback5 eredeti hozzászólása:

Ah, thanks. That and capitalists too. But it would take a very short time with the national focuses to get the ideal amount of these. I'm wondering what else I should set my national focuses to afterwards.

Now in terms of letting the capitalists having more control of the economy, they often make stupid decisions. But more capitalist friendly government economic policies have reduced factory costs and can be really helpful if you've got hundreds of profitable factories in need to be upgraded every year or two. As a bigger nation it can be a real pain having to upgrade a factory every minute after awhile, so it can be relieving to hand control to the capitalists if you think they wont just shut everything down or build stupid factories.

Incase you don't know, it's ideal to have 1 clerk per 4 craftsmen so that'd be over 6 percent which I'd think would take awhile. A thing I noticed is while the literacy rates in colonies aren't counted as part of the national average, clergy are. So if the amount of clergy is below 2% in your colonies, then it might be hurting your research speed if reducing it below 2% national average. Just like clergy to 2-4%, it's handy to increase soldiers to 5% in every state and colony if you haven't already. But if you seriously have nothing else to use your NFs for, then increase support for your choosen party as having their favorite party in power probably lowers militancy.

[froggycomeback5]

richnathaniel9419 eredeti hozzászólása:

froggycomeback5 eredeti hozzászólása:

Ah, thanks. That and capitalists too. But it would take a very short time with the national focuses to get the ideal amount of these. I'm wondering what else I should set my national focuses to afterwards.

Now in terms of letting the capitalists having more control of the economy, they often make stupid decisions. But more capitalist friendly government economic policies have reduced factory costs and can be really helpful if you've got hundreds of profitable factories in need to be upgraded every year or two. As a bigger nation it can be a real pain having to upgrade a factory every minute after awhile, so it can be relieving to hand control to the capitalists if you think they wont just shut everything down or build stupid factories.

Incase you don't know, it's ideal to have 1 clerk per 4 craftsmen so that'd be over 6 percent which I'd think would take awhile. A thing I noticed is while the literacy rates in colonies aren't counted as part of the national average, clergy are. So if the amount of clergy is below 2% in your colonies, then it might be hurting your research speed if reducing it below 2% national average. Just like clergy to 2-4%, it's handy to increase soldiers to 5% in every state and colony if you haven't already. But if you seriously have nothing else to use your NFs for, then increase support for your choosen party as having their favorite party in power probably lowers militancy.

Thank you. Yeah I had read that the capitalist AI is dumb, but since I only have three states it's much easier and safer for me to build/expand the factories myself. I didn't know the ratio was that low of 1 clerk for every 4 craftsmen.. I thought it was like 1 for every 100 lol.

Yes, it's annoying about the clergy. And I never thought about focusing on increasing soldier POPs, that will help since my brigades get undermanned. For some reason though no matter how many technologies in the respective tree I research, I only cap out at 2 NFs. Is it dependent on how big the population of the primary/accepted culture is? If so I can't really do anything about that for a long time.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Yes, you get 1 NF per 400K of your primary pop and (likely) accepted pops.

[Surimi]

75 industrial score is good with a small country. I would tone it down and start focusing on gaining prestige instead. Since the phillipines doesn't have a source of vital industrial resources like coal it's quite easy for the economy to get strangled if it's too dependent on industry.

[froggycomeback5]

Deep Hurting eredeti hozzászólása:

75 industrial score is good with a small country. I would tone it down and start focusing on gaining prestige instead. Since the phillipines doesn't have a source of vital industrial resources like coal it's quite easy for the economy to get strangled if it's too dependent on industry.

Yes, in another game as the PH I annexed Korea and it had a good amount of coal. Unfortunately I can't do that now because they're sphered by Japan and w/o being a great power I can't remove them from their sphere safely through influence. How should I go about increasing prestige? I've always avoided the prestige techs since I don't know how useful they are. I've only directly gotten prestige from my wars, inventions, and random events.

[froggycomeback5]

richnathaniel9419 eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, you get 1 NF per 400K of your primary pop and (likely) accepted pops.

Dang, I already have Good Healthcare and researched those medicine techs. Not much else I can do except wait a few decades :/

Is there any point in trying to turn colonies into states? I think I can do it with Brunei since they have a notable amount of PH migration, but nowhere else, not even Bali or Cambodia. I'm using 3.04 beta btw.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

You should go about it by the techs and wars, the techs are useful as it's free prestige and the amount of prestige you get is based on the order of which nations discover the inventions they unlock. I definitely wouldn't go for them straight away especially since some nations like Prussia start with Romanticism, but by the late 1840s or maybe better still the late 1850s go for them for sure.