How can I build a competitive industry as the ottomans?

[lukash77]

Hello everyone,
After I had a successfull playthrough as prussia, I wanted to try something more difficulty. The Ottoman Empire.
I noticed soon that I can't build up a good economy since I can't even build one Factory...
My problem is that I have no craftsmen or clerks, exactly 0 of both. I have some capitalists, Not many but still enough. But without the craftsmen and clerks I can't build any factories and have my problems to Stay a GP.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

The illiteracy of the Ottomans will greatly slow down the rate POPs promote to craftsmen so there isn't too much you can do there until you bring the literacy up into the 20s. You may need to change the party in power to build factories, or if it's just a money issue, disband your navy if you haven't already as you're unlikely to get much use out of it and it's a huge burden to your budget.

[lukash77]

Ah ok. My Literacy is really low indeed (11 now). But as you describe it, it Sounds Like There Would be few craftsmen if you have low Literacy. I have no craftsmen at all.
Anyway, I will try to get the Literacy High enough. Is There a way to Speed the Process up? It is currently really slow and it seems that it will be at 20 By 1900 :D

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

The main factor determining the rate literacy is gained is your education spending and percentage of clergy and probably also clerks, but plurality and education efficiency also play their parts. So ignoring plurality and education efficiency which basically just multiply the effects of the others, the max literacy gain you can get is when you have 4% clergy at 100% education spending. Should you have 4% clergy and cut education spending to 50%, you'd gain the same amount as if you had 2% clergy at 100% education spending, so no point going beyond the 2% clergy needed for max research points if you can't afford to pay more than that, though 2% clergy with reduced education spending still gets you the max research points so that's always a must.

Come the 1850s, be sure to research "Biologism" for the big 60% boost to education efficiency.

Something I'd recommend is that you don't build any factories until you save up like a quarter million pounds, for currently, your nation is in non-industrialized mode and therefore no POPs are becoming craftsmen, this is a good thing right now as it means you wont get any unemployment. As soon as you start building your first factory however, your nation will switch to industrialized mode and just about every state will start getting craftsmen, so you want to save up so you can build factories in a whole heap of states at once to minimize unemployment.

[Clueless Disgrace]

I always was under the impression that pops start to promote to craftsmen the second a factory is on its way in its region? Also are you sure pops have to be above 20% literacy rate to be able to promote to craftsmen? I did know of the minimum of 50% for clerk promotion...

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Nope, nationwide, otherwise yes. As for 20%, I don't know for sure, though have whitnessed little in the way of POPs promoting to craftsmen in very illiterate nations, could be because only the very few above 20% are promoting as I've been informed, or it could be pure coincidence.

[lukash77]

Ok, but how can other nations build factories in the Early game?
France, UK and probably prussia already have some. Is it really all about the higher Literacy they have?
Another question: Are There other ways to gain Points for the industrial score in the Early game beside factories?

[Clueless Disgrace]

Originally posted by lukash77:

Ok, but how can other nations build factories in the Early game?
France, UK and probably prussia already have some. Is it really all about the higher Literacy they have?
Another question: Are There other ways to gain Points for the industrial score in the Early game beside factories?

You can always build factories from day one if you have the funds and are a civilized nation. What might happen in your case is that you have a party that has interventionism or laissez-faire as policy, which doesn't allow the player to actively build a factory.
To your other question, i don't think so. AFAIK industrial score is comprised of number of factories and their level, how many people are actually employed in them and your technology level (mostly commerce techs).

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Originally posted by lukash77:

Ok, but how can other nations build factories in the Early game?
France, UK and probably prussia already have some. Is it really all about the higher Literacy they have?
Another question: Are There other ways to gain Points for the industrial score in the Early game beside factories?

Suikotsu is right about the building factories part, if you're civilized, have the funds and the party in power allows it, you can always build factories.

As for your other question, yes, there is. If you invest in other nations, building factories, railroads etc, it will improve your industrial score. It's how Austria has a point of industrial score at the start without a factory. Otherwise, I believe industrial score is entirely the number of employed POPs working in factories, though tech may play a part in it as suggested by Suikotsu.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Originally posted by Suikotsu:

You can always build factories from day one if you have the funds and are a civilized nation. What might happen in your case is that you have a party that has interventionism or laissez-faire as policy, which doesn't allow the player to actively build a factory.
To your other question, i don't think so. AFAIK industrial score is comprised of number of factories and their level, how many people are actually employed in them and your technology level (mostly commerce techs).

Number of factories and their level doesn't play a part in it at all just so you know.

[lukash77]

Ah ok. Well, if craftsmen begin to spawn if I build a Factory, then I will do it. Luckily I'm still a GP and can Do this. I would have never thought that the things I need to Run a Factory spawn if I build one. :D

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

GP status isn't needed to build factories, but is to be able to invest in other (non-GP) nations. And just to make sure, by investing in other nations, I meant building factories and railroads in them.

[Clueless Disgrace]

Originally posted by richnathaniel9419:

Originally posted by Suikotsu:

You can always build factories from day one if you have the funds and are a civilized nation. What might happen in your case is that you have a party that has interventionism or laissez-faire as policy, which doesn't allow the player to actively build a factory.
To your other question, i don't think so. AFAIK industrial score is comprised of number of factories and their level, how many people are actually employed in them and your technology level (mostly commerce techs).

Number of factories and their level doesn't play a part in it at all just so you know.

You are right of course, it indirectly affects industrial score by making more jobs for craftsmen and clerks, i could have phrased it more clearly.
Edit: Actually now that i think about it do you think it possible that industrial score isn't number of pops in factories, but rather goods produced? It would take into account the number of pops as well as tech level. Your thoughts?

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Originally posted by Suikotsu:

You are right of course, it indirectly affects industrial score by making more jobs for craftsmen and clerks, i could have phrased it more clearly.
Edit: Actually now that i think about it do you think it possible that industrial score isn't number of pops in factories, but rather goods produced? It would take into account the number of pops as well as tech level. Your thoughts?

Nah I doubt it, you'd see fluctuations during shortages otherwise. But definately, it's how I think it should be calculated as it makes a ton of sense and would also take into account the effects economic policy would have on the industry.

[Mashsmouth]

Pretty sure what Rich said is false.

Your budget to bureaucrats/soldiers/clergy is simply how much you pay them. All a higher budget does is increase their paychecks. Therefore, it is perfectly correct to have 4% clergy and only 50% of the budget filled, as long as they aren't changing to other professions too fast.

You should only build factories in regions where its raw materials are present (not always possible, but definitely prefered) and in your most populous regions (the ones you'll usually be using your national foci on). A good combination is a glass+liquor factory in a big region that produces coal. Glass is an amazing factory in the early game because it's stable and profitable, unlike Steel and Canned Food.

If possible, you could steal Sicily from [One] Sicily because they have one of the only sulphur mines in all of Europe. Sulphur by itself is already amazing, but you can also build an ammunition factory for a tidy throughput bonus. Even better, it's an opportunity to put the navy to good use before you scrap it to continue industrialization.

Finally, tech is going to be very hard to manage for the Ottomans. Honestly, I wouldn't put much effort into fighting the Russians or the Austrians unless one of them was an ally against the other. You have terrible manpower compared to them, so there's really no point.

I've seen the Ottomans do some colonizing in Africa, but they could only gobble some ♥♥♥♥ land. Instead, put your military to conquering the Middle East for that oil money later in the game (esp. Nejd + Abu Dhabi).

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Originally posted by Who Goes Thar:

Pretty sure what Rich said is false.

Your budget to bureaucrats/soldiers/clergy is simply how much you pay them. All a higher budget does is increase their paychecks. Therefore, it is perfectly correct to have 4% clergy and only 50% of the budget filled, as long as they aren't changing to other professions too fast.

Pretty sure what Who Goes Thar said proves he hasn't played the game. Never the less...

Number of Clergy, near 4%: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087558 Monthly gain at max: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087636 Monthly gain at half: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087695 Monthly gain at max again: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087749 So, as I said, having half the clergy at double the pay would get the same amount of literacy gain and therefore, it's not worth going over 2% clergy if you can't afford to pay the extra paychecks.

Furthermore, while not as dramatic, the budget to bureaucrats effects crime fighting efficiency, here's crime fighting efficiency at 30% budget:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087820 Here it is with max budget: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087884 Proof it's at max budget: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=735087932 You can also see in the last one it says it effects crime fighting efficiency.

Originally posted by Who Goes Thar:

You should only build factories in regions where its raw materials are present (not always possible, but definitely prefered) and in your most populous regions (the ones you'll usually be using your national foci on). A good combination is a glass+liquor factory in a big region that produces coal. Glass is an amazing factory in the early game because it's stable and profitable, unlike Steel and Canned Food.

If possible, you could steal Sicily from [One] Sicily because they have one of the only sulphur mines in all of Europe. Sulphur by itself is already amazing, but you can also build an ammunition factory for a tidy throughput bonus. Even better, it's an opportunity to put the navy to good use before you scrap it to continue industrialization.

This stuff is good, where'd you copy and paste it from?

Originally posted by Who Goes Thar:

Finally, tech is going to be very hard to manage for the Ottomans. Honestly, I wouldn't put much effort into fighting the Russians or the Austrians unless one of them was an ally against the other. You have terrible manpower compared to them, so there's really no point.

Manpower isn't everything, Austria starts with a tiny army compared to their manpower, to the point that both the Ottomans and Prussia alone have bigger despite combined only having about the same manpower (3.6+5.2=8.8 verse 8.8). Plus, since the Ottomans and Prussia have more manpower of their primary culture than Austria, they have more mobilized forces too. But yeah, Austria especially of the two will usually have the tech to make up for it.

Originally posted by Who Goes Thar:

I've seen the Ottomans do some colonizing in Africa, but they could only gobble some ♥♥♥♥ land. Instead, put your military to conquering the Middle East for that oil money later in the game (esp. Nejd + Abu Dhabi).

They should be able to colonize quite alot due to all their coasts, though most of it isn't on the same continent as their capital so that'd work against them a bit, by how much is the question.