This game is better than Victoria III

[Crazy Bananazzz]

A paradox game without army micro is for babies, change my mind.

[heres johnny3112]

Vic 2 with GFM is superior to Vic3 in its current form. Vic3 is fun at first spending all your time going through the cycle of pick law/tech, then start the economy engine of 1. check markets -> 2. build in demand items -> 3. check markets again -> 4. Queue more buildings and repeat.

Also with Vic 2 the world looks a lot better, the balkan countries end up forming typically, Japan takes over Korea, Africa looks reasonable. The crisis system works well enough to help smaller countries get their historical borders which doesn't really happen in V3. War in V2 is more tedious - but at least it feels like its present, you don't have armies teleporting all over the map. Major wars feel like major wars rather than just 1 large front that you stuff 10 generals on and watch the battle bar swing left or right. You actually have a front to manage and if you setup a major late game war - its massive - and you can use the Vicky War analyzer to see total casualties - and the wars are climactic due to the dismantle empires casus belli.

Also paradox seems to be allergic to having panels that take the player away from the map. V2's screens for industry/budget are laid out reasonably well.

There certainly are issues with V2 but unfortunately it still beats V3 in immersion and simulation of the 1800s politics. V3 wins in the economy simulator but both diplomacy and war are steps back that need to be fleshed out probably with future DLC.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

"It doesn't even have war"
No point watching past that blatant lie.

It doesn't have war though? I have 30 hours in Victoria 3 and war is a downgrade when compared to Victoria 2. Atleast Victoria 2 had customizable compositions. Can't even win as a smaller nation because the diplomatic ai is so random. The economy is decent enough in Victoria 3 but right now it plays like a cookie clicker with the building mechanics.

They banned me in the Victoria 3 steam forums for speaking the truth. And now it's over!

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Fellington:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

"It doesn't even have war"
No point watching past that blatant lie.

It doesn't have war though? I have 30 hours in Victoria 3 and war is a downgrade when compared to Victoria 2. Atleast Victoria 2 had customizable compositions. The economy is decent enough in Victoria 3 but right now it plays like a cookie clicker with the building mechanics.

So it does have war. It also has more customizable compositions than Vic2 due to tech being a thing that doesn't simply instantly apply.

[AN]

Army micro is for babies, it let's you ignore the other parameters of the game to an extreme extent, you're essentially cheating; same goes for eu4, though that's at least more of a war game.

[Crazy Bananazzz]

Originally posted by AN:

Army micro is for babies, it let's you ignore the other parameters of the game to an extreme extent, you're essentially cheating; same goes for eu4, though that's at least more of a war game.

So by cutting out the army part of the game Paradox is forcing us to look at the economy more? That argument doesn't really hold up. It's just shoehorning players into focusing on what you want them to focus on. Rather than giving them depth in all areas and let them play the game how they like.

[whatamidoing]

Vic2's economy has far less depth and you have no choice but to micro your units.

[Rumi]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Vic2's economy has far less depth and you have no choice but to micro your units.

ever heard of the rebel hunter button?

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Rumi:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Vic2's economy has far less depth and you have no choice but to micro your units.

ever heard of the rebel hunter button?

Yeah, it makes your armies run away in actual wars.

[Rumi]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Rumi:

ever heard of the rebel hunter button?

Yeah, it makes your armies run away in actual wars.

that's why you micro

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Rumi:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Yeah, it makes your armies run away in actual wars.

that's why you micro

Right, so you're forced to micro.

[Rumi]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Rumi:

that's why you micro

Right, so you're forced to micro.

not against rebels

[Crazy Bananazzz]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Vic2's economy has far less depth and you have no choice but to micro your units.

Paradox games are all about microing the politics, economy, armies, and diplomacy to build an empire. That's the point of the game. It's these details that keep the map blobbing from being boring. The army micro in Victoria 2 isn't really that complicated to be b*tching about this hard. This isn't skynet-level AI you're facing. There is depth to Victoria 2 warfare, but you can get by in most wars with a pretty basic understanding of how armies work.

More and more it seems Victoria 3 isn't designed for fans of the classic Victoria series. It's a Victoria game designed for people who for some reason dislike Victoria 1 and 2. And all the cut features will probably be sold back to us as a f*cking DLC.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Crazy Bananazzz:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Vic2's economy has far less depth and you have no choice but to micro your units.

Paradox games are all about microing the politics, economy, armies, and diplomacy to build an empire. That's the point of the game. It's these details that keep the map blobbing from being boring. The army micro in Victoria 2 isn't really that complicated to be b*tching about this hard. This isn't skynet-level AI you're facing. There is depth to Victoria 2 warfare, but you can get by in most wars with a pretty basic understanding of how armies work.

More and more it seems Victoria 3 isn't designed for fans of the classic Victoria series. It's a Victoria game designed for people who for some reason dislike Victoria 1 and 2. And all the cut features will probably be sold back to us as a f*cking DLC.

Right, army micro in Vic2 is the worst part of the game and the AI sucks at it, so it's an easy way to ignore the actually important aspects that make the game unique. It's an easy out.
I like Vic2. It was the only PDX game I've played for years before Vic3.

[heres johnny3112]

V2 with mods like GFM is a much more immersive experience than V3. You can actually have pretty epic battles trying to beat the AI. Try naval invading an industrialized japan as they throw thousands of troops at you.

There's nothing better than setting up a pretty even great war in the late game - having the great powers duke it out and dismantling a few empires. Then loading up the vicky battle analyzer at the end to see there was 10+ million casualties as all parties knew what was at stake. V3 war is boring and uninspiring. I'll take the tedious micro of V2's warfare over V3's anyday. V3 is designed to just have you cycle through the building tab/market tab over and over again. It's interesting for the first couple games but it becomes incredibly tedious - involving way more micro than V2s army ever does.

If micro is a bad thing - V3s economy is micro on steroids. If you don't have your construction sectors building things all the time you're falling behind. At least in V3 the capitalists could help deal with the economy by expanding factories and building new factories - I found its not actually that bad with the GFM mod. Obviously not as effective as a human player but not atrocious either.

[whatamidoing]

I've naval invaded GB many times with several mods. They'll gladly throw several million conscripts at you. It's not hard to win against them, it just takes a long time for the battle to finish.
Economy micro adds more to the game than unit micro, and the AI can handle it better.