How do I form Germany? (Austria or Prussia)

[Lukwich]

It's been a long time since I have played Victoria II as a German Nation and I was wondering how do I actually go about forming Germany as Austria or Prussia. There are a lot of videos out there but I cant seem to find a simple Step 1. Do this etc.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Well that's probably because it's more about archiving certain objectives than going though a list of steps in a particular order, especially for Austria. Austria definately has the harder task out of the two as they have both more objectives and are simply the weaker nation, I'll cover them first.

Prussia has a stronger army, more reserves and can research techs faster than you as Austria, making it very hard to knock Prussia out of great power status which is Austria's prime objective when it comes to forming Germany. You can fortunately get an alliance with France and you better secure it fast before Russia allys them first. Even then, you will probably want to just restart if you see Prussia ally Britain as you and France are very unlikely to beat them together. Hopefully you'll see Britain ally the Ottomans instead and the Ottomans will stay as a great power, you may also be able to ally Britain yourself, though they're an unreliable ally and Prussia or the Ottomans are very likely to beat you to it and may cause you to miss out on both Britain and France. If Britain does ally the Ottomans, that should leave Prussia isolated or allied with Spain and some minors at worst, perhaps they'll even ally the Dutch and get dragged into a war against Britain and Belgium which would be perfect for you.

While it is the primary objective to knock Prussia out of GP status as Austria, you should make sure to only do it sometime after 1850, this is because a new tech becomes avalible in 1850 which gives you a CB to take all of a nations spherelings in one war and taking all of the minors in Prussia's sphere is your secondary objective. Prussia is very strong, so you can take alot from them and they'll still remain a GP, just don't leave them fully occupied for too long before you're actually ready to knock them out of GP status, or they will lose it temporarily, perhaps causing some of those minors to fall under France or Russia's sphere. Once you have those minors in your sphere, you then just need Schleswig-Holstein from Denmark, Alsace-Lorraine from France and to have Prussia in your sphere.

Prussia also needs to get Schleswig-Holstein and Alsace-Lorraine, however from Austria they only need the four German minors in their sphere, that's it! Oh, and to add Hannover and Holstein to their sphere, but that's easy, they can also form the NGF part of the way though to make things even easier. Prussia doesn't need to add Austria to their sphere to form Germany, but can still do so to form what many call Super Germany, like I hinted at before, you merely need to fully occupy Austria for awhile to make them lose GP status and you can then add the wargoal to add them to your sphere for a small amount of infamy. Prussia can ally Britain, the Ottomans and Spain very easily, with Ottomans probably being the best choice for a number of reasons.

[Lembley42]

Or more step-like (for Prussia):

Step 1) Sphere Holstein & Denmark
Step 2) Sphere Hannover once it fallen out of British sphere
Step 3) Sphere Saxony (might take a while until Austria stops kicking you out)
Step 4) Form North German Federation
Step 5) Either declare war on Austria (good ally is Ottomans here imo) to grab all those south german states with "Remove from sphere" (which adds it to yours) OR just attempt to sphere them all like you did with Saxony
Step 6) Declare war on France for Alsaice-Lorraine, crush them and Russia
Step 7) Form Germany


Keep mostly in mind that you don't want to neglect your armies mixup, the best being 4 Infantry / 1 Husar / 5 Artillery per stack.
Use non-retarded generals (in case you are lucky and got any), mind terrain & supply limit and so forth. Then you should have zero problem with France and Russia.


You can also get Großdeutschland (Greater Germany), this is Germany + Austria, as Prussia.
To do this just do Step 5 but declare war for something cheap (like Humiliate) on Austria, and occupy everything until they fall from Great Power Status (might take a year or so). Still in the war, you can now add "Add to Sphere" war goal and then peace out. South german states will be also free to sphere, as Austria is no longer a GP.
Then proceed as follows with France. Once you form Germany while Austria is in your sphere, you'll also inherit them.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

And here comes Hypocrite42 to repeat a bunch of stuff, great...

[Lembley42]

"Or more step-like" (implying it adds not necessarily much new)...

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Wait, what? You recommend he go after France after sphering Austria? Nice fail Hypocrite42, Austria would just regain GP status and make all that effort sphering them go to waste.

[Lembley42]

Never had that problem really, especially since you peace out also with the Humiliate CB. War vs France tends to be short.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

Originally posted by Lembley42:

"Or more step-like" (implying it adds not necessarily much new)...

Doesn't explain "You can also get Großdeutschland (Greater Germany), this is Germany + Austria, as Prussia." or "occupy everything until they fall from Great Power Status (might take a year or so). Still in the war, you can now add "Add to Sphere" war goal and then peace out."

[Lembley42]

I don't know what exactly you mean and frankly don't want to discuss this again at super-length.
For me that has worked, ok if it hasn't for you then good info, then for OP might be better to just declare war on France after having occupied Austria and waiting for GP drop, no biggie.

Why can't you instead just be productive for once rich instead of this insultive stance.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

I wanted to check how long the Alsace Lorraine war took me, but couldn't a screenshot after I did it despite being sure I made one, so here I am after reinstalling the game (since my external drive where I had all my games installed died a week ago) and looking at my Prussia-Germany saves. The first one was 27th of February 1839 on the day I sphered Hannover and therefore could've formed NGF, I wasn't currently at war in the save, while the second was 25th of August 1839 with Alsace Lorraine acquired. I also rewatched Shenryyr2's Prussia video where he did it between 25th of November 1836 and 19th of April 1837, so, proved myself wrong there. Still though, France is clearly the bigger threat with a massive 100+ brigades ready to mobilize which is more than even Russia can mobilize with a standing army that's also fairly big, I think it's better getting France out of the way before they have time to build strength. Austria is just outclassed by Prussia and can be delt with any time, it would also give you more time to try taking more south germans from their sphere which can make the Austrian war even easier and less infamous.

As for your suggestion of going after France while Austria is occupied, wouldn't France and friends be able to unoccupy Austrian lands during that war? I assure you the AI would try doing so if they're allowed to given how it loves to do similar things, which would be bad given how you don't have enough troops to effectively defend your land already, nevermind Austria's as well.

[Lembley42]

You can kick out in my experience France fairly quickly, able to draw the war to them, while only fending off the Russian troops by only engaging in good situations, thus just gaining lots of WS there out of battles.
France starts with an Anti-Military government and doesnt change it. Mobilization and movement is so early also slower, so you should be able to occupy the country quite fast. Also, Alsaice-Lorraine doesn't require that much Warscore. So rush in, occupy some stuff, kill their attacking troops, kill few russians with 2 stacks or so in the East, then just kinda peace out.
Generals are kinda a big point here I guess, which is RNG. But with decent rolls, a player has basically the equaliavent of gas attack :) (+3 advantage)

If France/Russia wants to unoccupy a few Austrian lands, who cares. They just waste troops, and the Austrians won't be able to capitalize on just a few free provinces in a big enough way to get their score up - especially since you can just occupy it quickly again after the war.

In any case, I was under the impression that OP doesn't want to totally rush it (being newish) but wants to rather be careful, so doing "one thing after another" sounded less daunting. Waiting to form NGF and build up is also helpful to this end.

But yeah, he can do France first too. Again, felt like more pointing out a cautious approach rather than "best time". And if you are cautious, you have south german states support if you attack France (which have quite a few troops), except if you attack while still occupying Austria ofc.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

You see, I totally disagree on Austria first being the cautious approach, I say that forces you into trying for a best time as now you have to race the clock before Austria becomes a GP again. Infact, the idea of going to war with France while Austria is fully occupied would be without a doubt the fastest way to do it as simply waiting for enough jingoism to add them to your sphere is the biggest bottleneck in the process, at least in my experiance. Going after France first and trying to get the south germans just though diplomacy is the cautious approach in my view, like you made Saxony step three because I guess you thought it would take longer than Hannover, not the case in my run, though repeating that process three more times for the south germans would take a few years, so what do you do in those few years? Attack France, that's what.

France has much better literacy than Austria and goes for military techs first from my experiance, so the sooner the better. Also hardly seems cautious to attack Austria and therefore also the south german minors who will no doubt ally Austria for the south germans when you don't have to.

[Lembley42]

Sounds reasonable at least, so you very well can be right about that.

Most cautious would probably be to grab Bohemia early on, then Java, etc. Obviously very far off "optimal", but if one has trouble with the faster method, this is probably what you should do.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

"Most cautious would probably be to grab Bohemia early on" Is that meant to be a joke bro? 'despite the fact I'm about to get Bohemia anyway when I form Germany, I better take on 11 infamy to get Bohemia a year earlier'

[Lembley42]

Originally posted by Lembley42:

Obviously very far off "optimal", but if one has trouble with the faster method, this is probably what you should do.

And you can replace Bohemia with some other valuable region that is relatively easy to aquire.

[WhatWillTheNextDowndateBring?]

"very far off optimal" doesn't cut it, it's plain moronic. Can't beat France? Is what I assume you're going with since you think multable wars against Austria is fine for whatever you're going with. Then get allies, like you could conquer Two Scilies I guess, though better would probably just be add them to your sphere and ally. France is usually the only one to go for them early on and even then they're prioritizing the rest of Italy first, as in fighting Austria, leaving Two Scilies pretty open for players to take. With nearly 2 million population and mostly if not all primary culture, they field a pretty large army and mobilized reserves, probably more reserves than Austria's pathectic 14. Maybe go to war with Spain to force them into your sphere too, though, I guess that would require a navy to beat theirs to reach their colonies... pull it off however, you'll soon have a strong ally to use against France who may even not return to GP status. Spain becoming a GP again after losing it is a rare sight in my campaigns as Sweden, Belgium, Two Scilies, Netherlands and even Barvaria leave Spain behind industry wise as they're below the 20% literacy to get craftsmen. Even if they do become GP again, they'll stay your ally, though will be less likely to want to join your wars, hopefully they would still though. Locking Sweden down would be good two.

Netherlands without Java is probably weaker than Belgium, so yeah, take their stuff for yourself, don't bother allying them. Perhaps you can use Java as a launching point for Japanese conquest? The state with Kyoto, Kanto? Has good population and also gold? Might be too hard, don't know.