Too complex!

[Nats]

I used to play Falcon 4 a lot, way back when Freefalcon and BMS was just starting off, and it was a great game - still quite complex but still a lot of fun. But this iteration of the game is not fun. Firstly you need to download a cope of BMS 4.33 even to get it to run.

Then I spent half an hour just looking for the commands to put into my joystick and I still havent even managed to find the fire control for the guns!!! Its just ridiculously complex now - about four or five pages of keyboard controls! Who could possibly remember all that? I trained on Flacon 4 for a few months a few years ago and I used to be able to pick this game up and still play it reasonably well. But 4.3 has changed all that - all the commands are different, all the controls are extremely complicated, its just gone far too complex for any fun now.

So yeah I cant possibly play a game this complicated. Going back to Thirdwire's Strike Fighters games. They are more my sort of game.

So well I just wasted £7 but luckily I think I can get a refund so maybe not.

But what a great shame that Falcon 4 should come to this - so complex no normal gamer can play it ! Terrible what is happening to flight sims now. Its either ridiculously complex or arcade simple, there is very little in the middle for people like me who used to enjoy games like Tornado, EF2000, F22:TAW, Gunship 2000 and the like.

[at_dp]

In the controllers menu, on the table on the right side you have two rows: "Key" and "Mapping". To map a control to your stick you need to find the control on the right row, for example "STICK: SECOND TRIGGER DETENT", and then click with the mouse on the key in the right row, directly adjacent to the control (where it says "Alt /", by default), and it will turn blue. Then you just push the button on your controller that you want to map to that control. If done correctly, whenever you push the same button on your controller again, it will show which control is mapped to that button below the controls table.

[Connovar55]

thank you very much. I got them working.

[Connovar55]

This was to update my previous whiny post. I decided to approach this like like learning biochemistry, in other words inorganic chem, then organic chem, the biochemistry and then biochemistry in that order. So I setup falcon bms but also purchsed for $5 a copy of falcon AF and then $20 for a copy of Pete Bonanni F4 strategy guide. I first fired up AF in easy mode all the way and then moved to full realistic in AF following Petes book. then I fired up BMS add the lesson I am learning that day. It provides instant fun with AF in instant action or dogfight so I am not just grinding towards one missions/skill set after the other. Pete book provides important back ground since I last touched F4 fifteen years ago. It works for me. other peoples mileage may vary.

[armani]

EF-2000 is p arcade ngl

[B-Flow]

I'm dating myself here, but I was hard core into Falcon 3.0 in the early 90s. Back then, the game came in box with five floppys, but more relevantly included a multi hundred page manual in a three-ring binder! Thats a key missing ingridient in sims, and even some strategy, games today. PDFs are no substitute.

The issue here is that everyone is told you have to grab BMS to get anything out of this game/sim. The sad truth is that in order to get the improved graphics and such which BMS offers, you have to give up one very very important setup option that Falcon 4.0 (and 3.0) gave you: Avionics Dificulty (which most notably covers the radar). BMS essentially forces the Realistic mode on you. That one item is respnsbile for most of the "you need a HOTAS" comments and the "I cant configure anything" frustrations.

If anyone is frustrated, do this: Try vanila Falcon 4.0 (if it will work for you... for me the 2D cockpit runs like a slideshow but 3D is usable). Chose "Easy" for Avionics. Start Instand Action. Hit F1 to be in AA mode. Hit PageUp/Down to cycle targets. Hit Enter to cycle between AA weapons. Space (or joytick button 2 usually) to fire.

The "Simplified" Avionics mode works the same way (same key presses) but instead of the top down god's eye view, the display is a more realistic "forward looking" one. Adds a nice layer of realisim without requiring all the knowledge, and periferal hardware, which the Realistic (and BSM) mode solicits.

[StickyToepad_81]

I've also noticed that the later version of the BMS series are quite complex, comparing to earlier versions. I remember upgrading my original Falcon 4 to BMS on my Windows Vista Pc in 2007, and was able to fly the F-16 and land it successfully after just a few weeks. Now I can't even startup the F-16 because you have to do everything right and even then it sometimes won't work (somewhat buggy).

Now I will try again with BMS 4.34. If i'm not happy, I'm going for the F-16 DLC in DCS World.

[at_dp]

Originalmente postado por StickyToepad_81:

I've also noticed that the later version of the BMS series are quite complex, comparing to earlier versions. I remember upgrading my original Falcon 4 to BMS on my Windows Vista Pc in 2007, and was able to fly the F-16 and land it successfully after just a few weeks. Now I can't even startup the F-16 because you have to do everything right and even then it sometimes won't work (somewhat buggy).

Now I will try again with BMS 4.34. If i'm not happy, I'm going for the F-16 DLC in DCS World.

Complex yes, but even when I started, it never took me "a few weeks" to fly and land in BMS. You have to be completely unfamiliar with airplanes and flight sims to take that long, even in BMS in it's current state.

As for the startup, you have a very handy checklist to follow. The tutorial document even points out which parts of the checklist are eye-candy (not critical for the actual startup procedure), so, if you wanted, you could start the F-16 with just a few switches. And yes, there are no bugs in the startup procedure. Assuming you do all of the critical steps in the checklist, it will start EVERY TIME! Speaking of the tutorials, they are very detailed and teach you literally EVERYTHING you need to know to fly and enjoy BMS. You could delve deeper and learn in depth about each system later at your own pace.

Finally, if you are looking for a simpler, less complete and less authentic "simulation" of the F-16, then I think DCS will be right up your alley. Though why anyone would choose to pay more and get less is beyond me...

[Nats]

Yes having looked back at this thread after all this time I am not sure anything has changed for the better. Flight sims are still dominated by players who demand the utmost complexity beyond what a lot of casual players can accept. Falcon 4 used to be a great game that I enjoyed immensely. But its changed now. Its not a game anymore.

FS2020 has raised the bar for civilian flight sims though, and that game is very accessible as well. It shows what can be done by a talented developer.

And with the resurgence of Microprose I am hoping we will get back to the lighter combat sims of the 80s and 90s that were fun to play but not overly demanding in terms of the brain power requirement. They are working on a B17 Flying Fortress sequel. Lets hope a jet combat sim with a great campaign like EF2000 or F117 Stealth Fighter is being planned for the future as well!

[Yuki Nagato]

Originalmente postado por Nats:

Yes having looked back at this thread after all this time I am not sure anything has changed for the better. Flight sims are still dominated by players who demand the utmost complexity beyond what a lot of casual players can accept. Falcon 4 used to be a great game that I enjoyed immensely. But its changed now. Its not a game anymore.

FS2020 has raised the bar for civilian flight sims though, and that game is very accessible as well. It shows what can be done by a talented developer.

And with the resurgence of Microprose I am hoping we will get back to the lighter combat sims of the 80s and 90s that were fun to play but not overly demanding in terms of the brain power requirement. They are working on a B17 Flying Fortress sequel. Lets hope a jet combat sim with a great campaign like EF2000 or F117 Stealth Fighter is being planned for the future as well!

You could just stick with playing regular Falcon 4. You can get it to run on modern PC's pretty easily a number of ways. The easiest way is to install NGlide. That choppy low framerate in 2d cockpit mode? It goes away, just like that, and the game runs fine. I simply installed NGlide, and ran the Falcon 4 exe outside of steam. I read it had to be named f4.exe, and ran outside of steam. Not sure why, or even if that part is true, but it works for me.

But I would take a look through the steam guides, I'm sure you can find a number of other ways to get the base game running on win 8/10 properly.

I basically haven't played this game beyond some instant action here and there. I play alot of Falcon 3 though. I've been meaning to get into 4 but every time I sit down with the intention of learning 4 I end up playing more missions in 3.

[ProudTiger]

Originalmente postado por Nats:

Yeah I am sure the game works pretty much as usual, but when I got into it years ago I had loads of time for messing about on computers, learnign complex flight and weapons systems etc. Dont have that anymore. So this is why I play lighter sims these days.

And you know apart from Falcon 4 all of my earlier sims were lighter sims - games like Gunship 2000 and EF2000 werent very complex flight wise, they concentrated more on providing an overall experience in an ongoing developing war more than getting the flight and operational characteristics of the planes/copters ultra realistic. And they werent any less of a game for that. In fact thats really what I like, being part of a simulated developing war.

If I was that interested in just the flight dynamics and button pushing I would go fly a real plane. Thaose aspects dont really interest me at all.

So DCS and the IL2 games have never done it for me really and now Falcon 4 has joined that list of ultra-realistic sims - and they are not what I am looking for in a sim. And at the other end of the spectrum neither are War Thunder and World Of Tanks.

There is a sim middle ground that isnt being filled at the moment by anyone. And we had loads of such sims throughout the 1990s. Now we have practically none.

I here you ,massive hole in the combat sim genre now,sims are ither light arcade or ott realistic,nothing in the sweet spot.

But I am too old now to learn everything in BMS,it is more for teenagers who want to fly the real thing and need something to practice on,

There are sims from ww1 and ww2 out there which aren't as complex but we need a Microprose F 19 or stealth fighter type sim but with today's scenery,graphics,that would be amaazing.

[ProudTiger]

Originalmente postado por at_dp:

What a load of crap... You don't like complexity? Play the original Falcon. What's the point of this thread? Do you expect the BMS team to make their sim an arcade piece of crap so that YOU have a game to play on the weekends? You're unreal.
Most people who invest time in BMS, want to learn to fly the real thing (or as close to the real thing as possible). If that is not your goal, you better find another 'game'. I hear H.A.W.X. is pretty easy on the complexity. Leave BMS to the big boys.

What a load of wank (big boys lmaoooooo,most pilots are two ft tall anyway)

[Yuki Nagato]

Originalmente postado por ProudTiger:

most pilots are two ft tall anyway)

I didn't know they let French people fly planes.

[Hotshot]

Originalmente postado por Nats:

And you know apart from Falcon 4 all of my earlier sims were lighter sims - games like Gunship 2000 and EF2000 werent very complex flight wise, they concentrated more on providing an overall experience in an ongoing developing war more than getting the flight and operational characteristics of the planes/copters ultra realistic. And they werent any less of a game for that. In fact thats really what I like, being part of a simulated developing war.
...
There is a sim middle ground that isnt being filled at the moment by anyone. And we had loads of such sims throughout the 1990s. Now we have practically none.

EXACTLY my point of view... I really fell in love with playing sim-light games like EF2000. Especially today (via community release) with TrackIR and TM Cougar MFDs this game is freakin' awesome!
That's why I played Flaming Cliffs 3 years ago, but I don't really have the time to learn DCS and FC3 is now a part of that, right?

Sorry, totally OT, but flight-sim-light games really need to come back. No offense, but ♥♥♥♥ I hate those arcade games ala Hawx :-\

[karatefire777]

Nats sounds like a Dork

[FloydFlashback]

Originalmente postado por karatefire777:

Nats sounds like a Dork

His post is from 5 years ago. Don't expect him to care.