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Had to break up your wall of text in order to reply to it because that was a strain to read. Firstly, "he thinks he's a girl" isn't the same as being legitimately transgender. Trans people like myself and my friends, we don't "think" we're the opposite gender. There's a lot more to it than that. I can't speak for all transgendered people, but I can give you a glimpse of my own personal experiences with being transgender.
It's less about "I think I'm a boy" and more "why don't I feel connected to my biological body?"
Biologically, I'm female. I wish I could come to accept that fact. But I can't. My body feels wrong. Like putting a shoe on the wrong foot; you know how uncomfortable that is, right? That's what it's like. I don't wake up every morning and go "I think I'm a dude," I wake up every morning and wonder why everything feels so out of place.
• Why don't I like dresses and skirts?
• Why does wearing a dress or a skirt feel so uncomfortable and gross?
• Why don't I like makeup?
• Why am I more comfortable in men's clothes when it's crossdressing?
• Why can't I look at myself in the mirror without feeling like I'm looking at a stranger?
• Why can't I look at my own body without getting nauseous and self-harming?
Birdo doesn't exhibit these kinds of thoughts or feelings that we've been shown in canon, and to say he does is projecting one's own fan desires onto the character. "Thinking" you're x gender is also something that you can grow out of, especially if those thoughts are part of an existential struggle that a person might be going through at the time. Some people go through a phase of being agender, bigender, genderfluid, etc. But they can shift back to being one set gender at the end, and even come to accept the gender and biological sex they were born as. It doesn't have the same weight as feeling like you're trapped in a cage that was meant for someone else.
Personally, I don't WANT to be transgender. I would give anything to be able to love and embrace myself in the body I was born in, as the gender I was born with. But that's impossible.
But that said, Take a look at the rest of the animatronics in FFP. They're all a set gender, they're all simple characters. Mangle is NOT an entirely new character in the franchise, he's still the old Foxy, one of the original four in the FFP lineup. It's just that he, like the others, was changed up to be more "kid friendly." Toy Freddy, Toy Chica, Funtime Foxy/Mangle, and Toy Bonnie are all still the old characters they were before their shiny new plastic casings. And they held the same names as their old selves as well.
I don't see the possibility of an animatronic being made to be transgender. Remember the difference between Scott and Nintendo; Nintendo is a mega corporation from Japan with no religion bias. Scott is one man, a CHRISTIAN man, with a family who makes games out of the sheer passion of a hobby. (A hobby that this fandom is, ultimately, probably ruining for him tbqh.)
Homosexuals and transgender folk are still widely scrutinized and shunned by a lot of religious people within the Christian community. And a game made by a religious Christian man, who has had his hand in several bible projects and youth programs for Christianity, might hold those same biases. I'm not saying Scott DOES, but I also can't rule out that possibility either. That's another reason I can't see "transgender" Mangle as a possibility. You need to consider who made the game, and what his background is. You and I might be accepting of transgender folk, but we're also not Scott.
Also, what purpose would Mangle being programmed to "try" and be a woman serve? Mangle is there to entertain kids at a birthday party. Putting on makeup is not universally entertaining (kids are high energy and that would be far too slow to keep their attention, not to mention it would only appeal mostly to girls and boys who like to play dress up) and serves virtually no purpose for the pizzeria. Freddy, Bonnie, and Chica are in a band. They sing, they perform. They have entertainment value that draws the kids' attention. Mangle would also need an act and routine of sorts as well because otherwise he would be boring. Plus, don't forget that Mangle was specified in the phone call to entertain toddlers. How many toddlers, around the age of 2, are going to go to a party pizzeria to watch an animatronic fox put on makeup and be a woman? It simply doesn't suit Mangle's target audience or the pizzeria itself.
I'm sorry, I just really don't see your ideas as plausible due to a number of factors.
About the male actors wearing lipstick thing, you'd THINK they'd wear neutral shades close to their skin, but not. Not all of them do. Mom and I have observed both while taking in a movie, or watching an award show, that certain male actors have lips that are... TOO pink and glossy to be natural. It happens with child actors too, young boys are sometimes given a dark pink or paler red for their lips that make them stand out more than a neutral shade would.
For example do you know palkia from pokemon ? Well don't have gender but people see it Like a her or he , but don't start war for that .
God I hate Palkia rofl. That thing's neck+head+shoulders make it look like a certain male reproductive organ.
I'm suddenly reminded of that dude that thinks Goomy and Goodra can only be female, and even said Nintendo was "wrong" for making Goomy a male in one of the Mystery Dungeon games. And if anyone draws Goodra as a male he loses his sh*t and attacks them. Not unlike the femMangles, ironically. Actually that dude reminds me of most femMangles I've encountered.
Moral of the story is yes, people care. Some people care A LOT.
Edited because BBCode fail.
Although, about how you said "If you just think so, you can get used to actually being male", I can say Birdo still doeds act like a female. Also, if Scott thought of making his game as his own religion, then I'm sure some things would be different (ex. FNaF 4 would have a cross in the house somewhere (maybe)), his game does take place on Earth, so he (or Freddy's Pizzaria) wouldn't base things off of one religion, cause some people get offended (although that was 1987 rather than now, but I'm trying to use all the evidence I have). And by "try" to be female, I meant like maybe a trait that would happen once in a while, obviously she (or he) would still entertain children 99.99999999% of the time. Also, I can remember when I used to go to Chuck E. Cheese, and I remember that other than singing and stuff, there were times where they shown like small portions of stuff that toddlers wouldn't understand (like I think there was a crush between 2 characters that was sometimes mentioned when I used to go there). Lastly, Scott made the game really deep and mysterious, for a hobby, so even if his other games were christian based, he wanted the FNaF series to be better than his other games (after all, one reason he made the game was to get back at some reviewers for having characters in Chipper & Sons looked like animatronics), so obviously he would make it deeper. That's all the evidence I have for now, and I apoligize I don't put my text into chunks, I don't usually type like that. Again, I don't care about the gender, I just care about keeping this community from going insane about Mangle forever, even if I can't truly affect it.
But just because Scott's religious doesn't mean the family in question is. Biases are a funny thing and come into play more so in certain areas than in others. For example, a religious person can create a fictitious family or household that isn't religious, so crosses and other religious artifacts/symbolism wouldn't necessarily be shown because they're "irrelevant." And even if they were religious, not EVERY household that's religious chooses to display religious symbolism like having a cross placed somewhere. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. Some people choose to decorate religiously, others are more subtle.
But when it comes to bias against an entire culture, like Christianity vs. homosexuality/transgenderism, if a religious person is biased against those cultures, they likely won't put such characters into their fictitious environment because it could be seen as a form of support for those cultures and is counteractive to their beliefs.
I'm not trying to say FNaF is a religious game series overall. I don't believe it is. I'm simply stating that it was created by a religious man who may or may not have potential religious biases against certain cultures and sexual orientations that would affect the characters and their roles, etc. Does that make sense?
Not only is Scott himself a Christian man, but a good portion of his community and fan following is also Christian and many of them have proven to be very unaccepting of transgenderism, homosexuality, and even something as trivial as a man wearing pink or costume makeup. When the male pronoun screen was initially used in FNaF World, there was utter chaos and people were threatening to quit the fandom or even kill themselves because they so strongly believed that Mangle was female, and it was unbearable for them to have it said otherwise. People were even saying nasty things about Scott and his family, all over a simple pronoun in regards to a fictional character. And it shouldn't matter to people; Above all else, Mangle is SCOTT'S character. And if he says Mangle is male, despite what the fans think, they don't really have a say in the matter. But, it's not even just Scott that gets harassment. I had drawings posted of Mangle in the past, which I had to remove because I was getting threats from people for depicting him as male. My friend, as well, has been harassed for thinking and advocating for Mangle being a male. I've watched many good fanartists and fanfiction writers be chased out of the fandom, their work reposted and vandalized, because they depict Mangle as male. I've never seen Mangle as a female, I've never even felt like Mangle's appearance was the least bit feminine. And considering Mangle was referred to as a "he" in FNaF 2 multiple times, that was enough for me. But not for a good majority of the fandom, who chose to take Mangle's appearance as "feminine" and even go as far as accusing Scott of mistaking his own creation.
To be honest, I realize that Scott may be taking a gender neutral stance to appease both sides (adding in the "she" screen not long after FNaF World's release), but it's not going to work because the female Mangle supporters don't want neutral, they want completely 100% female and I've seen a few people on dA swear to keep harassing people until it happens. The only thing Scott's actually accomplishing by taking the gender neutral stance is giving the female Mangle supporters more fuel for their already violent fire, and that's really not a good thing. I've seen Scott put in so much effort to tie Mangle to the male side that it saddens me as a character creator myself to see him bullied into changing his creation to suit someone else's whims.
I advocate for male Mangle just like my friends, and I know I've made that fairly obvious, but more than that my involvement in these debates is to bring awareness to people that you can't judge a book solely by its cover. I'm here to try and offer new ideas or new viewpoints for people, while pointing out the flaws and weak points in an argument so that a person can step back and think about things in a deeper way and build a more solid foundation for their views. I'm also here to try and spread awareness that a person's creation is their intellectual property, and their word takes (well, should take) priority above all else. They know their creation better than anyone else, after all. They created it, and they opted to share it with us. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't even know about the existence their creation, let alone anything else.
I'm sick of these debates as much as the next person is. I really am. They're nothing but a headache. But even more than that, I'm fed up with watching good people be forced out of the fandom purely because they believe Mangle is male. It's hard to sit back and watch when your friends are being driven to anxiety and depression because they're being harassed or their hard work is being vandalized and made fun of.
But I'm getting off topic. Back on your post, and about Birdo: Don't forget, too, that Scott was born in the USA. On the contrary, Nintendo is a Japanese corporation. Japan's culture and standards are a lot different from ours and the games they make are tailored to their own culture before all else. So while Birdo is the way Birdo is in the Mario games, please remember that the Mario games are of Japanese origin and aren't necessarily reliable comparisons to a game made in the USA.
I'm aware that toddlers won't understand everything, but you also need to stop and consider that Mangle is in his own room in the pizzeria. He has his own zone just like the others. And we don't know, because it's never shown, whether or not Foxy/Funtime Foxy/Mangle ever interacted with Freddy and the others. He may very well have been his own solo act, entirely different from the others and maybe interaction between them never happened.
Toddlers are especially high-energy, high-maintenance kids, with very short attention spans. Whatever Mangle's routine would have been, knowing that toddlers were the target audience, it would likely have been very high energy as well to keep the attentions of the kids. It may even have been a routine consisting of several short, varying acts. Jokes wouldn't go over well due to the age range of the audience, so I think Mangle's routine would have been more action-based. But that's assuming his actions and routine changed, which can't be proven. His routine may not have changed at all from his Pirate self. It's hard to say, we know literally nothing about the daytime activities of the pizzeria for the short time it was open.
But there's one thing I do believe based on what I've drawn from the game's story, looking past the games, and considering this instead as a real business.
FFP likes to cut expenses. Retrofitting the old bodies was too costly, so they opted to build entirely new bodies. And then, they kept the old models around for scraps, instead of paying to replace parts for the new bodies when needed. So this shows that FFP doesn't like to spend extravagant amounts of money if they don't have to.
Keeping that in mind, think about the new bodies. Brand new bodies made from scratch. If FFP really wanted to, they could have made an entirely new cast of characters to give their business a brand new face. But they kept the old four. Why? Because it was cheaper.
Making new characters would require spending more money and time on things such as:
• Hiring people to provide the voices for new characters
• Planning new attraction routines and acts
• Programming the aforementioned
So when you think of that, you realize that even despite their different looks, you still have the original four characters as they were before the upgrade. The three males; Freddy, Foxy, and Bonnie, and the female Chica. Nothing changed outside of appearances. The toys replaced the old models, not as entirely new characters but as improved versions of the old cast. In this instance, it makes very little sense for Foxy's character to be made transgender because it's an extra expense that wasn't needed or required.
If Foxy was upgraded with being transgender in mind, I don't think the staff would have left him with a male body and male accessories. Knowing that Mangle would have "tried" to be female, they likely would have designed him to look more feminine instead of matching him with the other boys.
(Because yes, men who try to look like women, or are transgender, generally try to make their figure more feminine. They can wear padded bras to give the impression of breasts, they can wear undergarments or clothing items that grant them an hourglass shape with a narrow waist and wider hips, etc. If Mangle were depicted as transgender, then he should logically have a similar figure to Toy Chica, the curvy body rather than the wide stomach we see on Funtime Foxy FNaF World that matches the other male Foxies and Freddy/Bonnie.)
Additionally, a new voice would have to be provided, because we've heard Foxy's original voice and it's NOT passable as feminine (unlike Birdo, who actually does have a feminine voice).
But hey, just my two cents.
And the award of The Great Wall of Text goes to...
Firstly, the discussion I'm having with Dombro1 doesn't involve you, so butt out until you're asked to participate. Furthermore, you don't know that Scott doesn't want to reveal the gender. After seeing the outrage from people when FNaF World was released, it's more like he CAN'T reveal a gender because the fandom will go to war both with him and with each other.
Neither choice is "confirmed," as you put it, but that doesn't stop the femMangles from ganging up on people and ramming "MANGLE IS CONFIRMED FEMALE STFU" down everyone's throats. So yes, if a femMangle brat is going to shove "Mangle is canon female" down my throat I am PERFECTLY entitled to do it back and you have no place to tell me I can't. :)
Hows about YOU respect MY opinion by not trying to stop my perfectly calm discussion with another member and telling me what to say or not say to other people? Hypocrite, much?
Okay I have to stop you at "panties." I know that's further down in your post but I need to address this first before all else. Mangle's bottom segment is pink and matches his stomach. That's actually a trait that Toy Freddy also has in FNaF 2. His bottom segment is caramel to match his stomach, unlike the chocolaty brown that his base body is. So if you're implying that Mangle is wearing panties for that reason, then technically, so is Toy Freddy. So now, you have a chunky, very MALE bear, walking around in female lingerie. Suddenly, I don't think the parents are going to be too happy with FFP.
Furthermore, stop and consider what panties are. They're lingerie, they're an undergarment, they're intimate apparel. FFP is a family joint, not a strip club. No character in FFP, in any generation, is wearing "panties." That's highly inappropriate. Panties, while being underwear and intimate apparel, are also considered articles of clothing. And we don't see the animatronics actually wearing clothes of any sort. Freddy's hat and bowtie aren't clothing, they're accessories. Bonnie's and Mangle's Bowties aren't clothing, they're accessories. Chica's bib, too, is an accessory. The colored bottoms that Toy Fred, Toy Chica, and Funtime Foxy have MIGHT represent some kind of clothing, but not necessarily.
Okay, moving back to the start of your post.
I don't know, it still seems illogical. We don't know for sure that Mangle ever interacted with the other characters, and given his solitude I can't see him having any short moments where that kind of action would be required or necessary. Because if he didn't interact with the others, there'd be no feelings or connection to the others to make him have little off moments like that. And the thing is, too, maybe the FNaF characters weren't that well developed by the company. Maybe they had their roles and performances, and that was the extent of it. I know the fandom likes to have the characters interact and pair and stuff but...
Foxy in FNaF 1 isn't much different from Foxy pre-toy generation. Truthfully, the Foxy from FNaF 1 could definitely be the same old, withered model from FNaF 2 put back into commission (because the toys were scrapped while the older models were kept after the place shut down). So if that were the case, don't you think it's at least a little bit logical to say that Foxy's little diddle we hear occasionally could have been part of his programming before the toy generation?
In the end, there's still a lot about the animatronics and the pizzeria that we don't know so outside of what's shown in-game there's... Really not much to go on outside of speculation, unfortunately.
A lot of people want the gender debates to stop. P: Not even just for Mangle, but for Spring Bonnie and Marionette too. (Though, those aren't nearly as common or prominent as the Mangle ones.) Even if the threads stop, though, there are still people who purposely go around to fan works and start sh*t in the comments. And until those people stop and let others carry on with their business, the wars will never end.
Even if Scott put his foot down and chose a set gender, I personally don't think it'd be enough to stop the wars. Or, if Scott said "choose your own gender" then people would still go "you're wrong for thinking x character is x gender." :\ Like, with Spring Bonnie for example, gender wars erupted over Spring Bonnie having eyelashes. And when FNaF World was released, Scott made the loading screen for S.Bon say "Male? Female? Who cares, it's a rabbit" and you STILL have people arguing that x gender is right or x gender is wrong. There's just... No way to stop this nonsense. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ out of control.
*EDIT*
Damn, top of the page again. xD I hate being the first post on a page.
I don't want start a war but who said that the "he" screen in fnaf world meant what you said ; like you said to me I , you and the rest of the fandom don't know Scott's plan .