Factorio

Factorio

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struggle to get automation up
so after recommendation I bought the base game and started my first few steps
although I not finished Tutorial 5 when I started my first free play I got a good start and with a good guide and several tries managed to get my first train within 90 minutes (got really close with only about 10 sec to spare or so)
currently I'm working towards rocket launch within 8h + lazy bastard
although I gave them both a tey on thier own I'd like to get them both within the same run (for the train I did a lot of handcrafting - but from a guide its possible to get the train with several minutes to spare and rocket launch within 5 hours while in the boubds of lazy bastard)
and although I'm new to the game and recent updates changed achievements in a way pretty much only ore patches can be increased I see myself to be able to get it done
currently I struggle to get proper automation up and running early on and keep doing much stuff manual all the way up the oil and beyond instead of making use of miner and furnace stacks and spam the base with 100s of inserters which by themselfs should be autocrafted
also I struggle with getting access to electric furnaces rather late so I have issues get my head around setting up coal-based furnaces and somewhat struggle to keep power up after unlocking electric miners
many beginner help I found seems quite outdate and not up to the changes of 2.0 - some even seem to got stuck pre-1.0
hence I'd like to request some guidance I can refere to to maybe get at least some basic automation up as a starter base
so far I managed to keep up with biters and polution and pro-active hunt down nearby nests before the swarm attacks due to polution - but as making enemies easier disables a few achievements all I can do is increase ores to spam turrets and walls

I'm aware that I rather should start simple by ignore both lazy bastard and there's no spoon - but I do like me some challenge so I'd like to learn the game within a bit tighter constraints instead of peaceful sandbox

thanks in advance
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Edwin May 12 @ 4:54am 
Getting the spoon achievement is about preparation (especially solo). Pick you seed carefully so you get a map where you'll have minimal interaction with biters. And know exactly what you need to build. Hell, you can even build a compact base and blueprint it.

As for early building. I quickly built assemblers to make things like green circuits and gears and belts to help hand craft other parts. Smelter lines I built with stone furnaces and updated them to steel ones later when science started demanding more.

But preparation is key. Know exactly what you need to build and need to research. Skip all the fluff. And find a map seed that boxes you in with lots of water and has oil close and of course max out all the resource settings. Travel is a waste of time and you certainly don't want to change your mining patches.
Last edited by Edwin; May 12 @ 4:56am
so I planed out what I need and took my time to search for a good seed
yet it still took me way over an hour before I even got automated coal up for feeding the boiler and still not have at least iron plates done
I've gone for additional assemblers as first thing crafted (after a few more small power poles) so I could do gears and belts while having additional assemblers to spare to craft more - but still it seems I have wasted a lot of time
You might want to take a look at this video by Nilaus - probably the smartest guy out there on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/chavhzKpZwM?si=fX4zyVXx2OgVmlAF

Will it make you a Factorio champion in 30 minutes? Not a chance, but if you follow the "approach" he advocates, you'll be cooking with Crisco.

Also, while I know I've been perplexed and frustrated with the learning curve, this is supposed to be FUN.

To do things well, we first have to do them badly. (Not me...but can't remember where I heard this.)
I actually tried to follow Nilaus' 100% achievement series to get on a track within 90 min (although towards the end it got quite close) - but no matter how hard I try to follow him step by step the way 2.0 has changed the tech tree I lack behind the start already about 10min+ - while he got a full automated red science with the first 30min I can't progress as fast as I first have to mine copper and iron to even unlock the lab in the first place - even if I spent the extra 10 crafts I have available (when I go really hardcore I end up with 101/111 with the first assembler - but is requires using the starting furnace for the boiler which slows down startup significant as you have to mine a lot of copper and iron upfront before you even can setup power, lab and assembler)
so - I'm not sure if it's the differences between all the pre-2.0 guides and the way how 2.0 has changed the early game - in respect to under the limit of lazy bastard
I'm sure Nilaus would be able to get his 100% achievement run also in 2.0 - so lazy bastard and still manage on a track like a pro - but even with a seed coming close to the one he used + amping up the ores (which is pretty much the only settings allowed not to disable achievements at all - as soon as you play with any of the biter or polution settings most achievements gets disabled as "game settings too easy")
I'm sure it comes down to experience and muscle memory - look at Age Of Empires 2 - had my standard build order for several civs - then came the remake and rebalance and I never got back to it
same goes with satisfactory: after sinking 1k hours into it I'm quite set in my early game and have ealy coal power up in quite a fast time as I have my preset location and build order - and with time and experience I guess I will get this way in factorio and also get ready to add space age later - currently this is clearly a ME-problem struggle to follow existing guides - but thanks for your input anyway
Chindraba May 15 @ 2:37pm 
Ditch the guides!

Those are made by Masters. I do appreciate that these Masters have chosen to share their knowledge with us, but it's still above and beyond what most can do. I click slower, I move the mouse slower, I take longer to find things in the menu and GUI. Heck, more than half the time I can't even follow what they've clicked, let alone copy it.

There are ideas in those guides, probably, which can be helpful. Helpful in the sense of how to make our own plans, but not in following their plan.

And, yes, the tech tree changes affect the usefulness of old guides. In 1.1 you didn't need to make the lab before you could start making the wine. You didn't need to make a few copper plates before you could make the lab, or even green chips. You didn't need to make a handful of iron plates before you could start making the power plant parts. And, even worse for the sequence in the guides, you now have to research the electric drill before you can make it.

All that said, however, it is now slightly easier to get the 90-min train than it was in 1.1. The old system left me with success about 50% of the time, and then usually with less than 60 sec to spare. In 2.0 I can almost always get there in time and often with 3 or 4 minutes to spare. (All with Lazy bastard, which I naturally do anyway.)

I can work on some points I've found useful. I'm not very good at brevity, however, so it'd be a bunch of text and probably more than one post to fit in Steams post-size limits, what every they are.

I'm also not good at writing guides, so I won't try.
would appreciate your input anyway
Originally posted by BayernJimmy84:
https://youtu.be/chavhzKpZwM
so I gave the "guide" a shot - and even with quite a few hours of watchtime of the game and now had my hands on it myself this video goes off the rails within the first 1-3 min just skipping from zero to a small starter base without explaining anything
sorry no sorry - but THIS video is complete trash - even in respect to something similar bad like the BouncyCastle JavaAPI docs or the ArchWiki: it assumes you already now all that stuff and just use it as a reference - there's no value in it as a guide whatsoever
Chindraba May 15 @ 4:43pm 
Unlike the speedrunners, and other guide makers, I'm no Master. I managed to complete a 100% achievement run in 1.1 - once. The changes in 2.0 have made the early parts easier, even though the tech changes ruin old plans. Just a little easier, yet it is easier.

As a reminder to anyone else reading this, I'm dealing with the base game in version 2.0, not the Space Age expansion. This does make a difference for no spoon, as well as several other choices on the way.

As @Edwin noted above, getting no spoon, with or without lazy bastard, is all about preparation. Preparation of your habits and knowledge of 'tricks' to use is probably more important than having prints. Speedrunners have a category where they are not even allowed to use prepared prints. They can make some in the game and use them, but nothing prepared or loaded into the game. The goal of 8-hour launch, 90-min train, and lazy bastard (LB) does not really 'handicapped' you much. LB has the most effect before you make the first assembler, and some effect for maybe 10 minutes after that - depending on your habits. Once you have bots, if you use them, LB changes nothing. To compensate for what LB does affect, only a little more detail in your plans are needed.

One such trick is marking many of the near-by coal rocks so you don't spend time wandering around looking for them. I've seen a video where someone demonstrates it, and explains what and how - without telling you what the decon planner has. Derek MacIntyre shows it in his video guide for the 100% run. Video: https://youtu.be/GMU_p8zqDjU?list=PLKOi3wi8FcK3_sqrPKmZ9blMfnruvT-kN Part 1 at 2:35-3:17. (I'll mention this video again, btw.)

Another trick is laying power poles. Well, it's a special case of fast placement anyway. You can save more time by planning the build of pieces so you can run or drag, if not both, while placing things. I'm sure you've done it with belts many times. When you do that, most things will place next to each other. Drag a line of assemblers and you get no gaps, unless there's something in the way. Power poles are different. If the space is open, running with a pole will place them at maximum wire reach spacing. If, however, you are doing it near things which need power, the spacing will be shorter when it needs to so that the line of poles leaves nothing without power, even if that makes them so there coverage areas meet, or even overlap. Lastly, if you drag along the ghost poles from placing a print they will be placed to match the poles in the print, even if there are three in a row next to each other. That would be pointless to make, but if that is what the print has, that's what you will get.. Depending on when you do it, all three options are quite helpful rather than trying to count spaces, check coverage, or exactly match a print one at a time.

The last trick I'll mention is knowing your mouse skills and how to apply them to the 'Z-drop' and the other loading/unloading moves. You probably already know them, but the significant options are to pull all the product from a machine by pressing Ctrl+LMB on the machine, or half the product with Ctrl+RMB, with an empty cursor. If the cursor is not empty, each will inserter all that is your hand, or half of it, into the machine. Instead of clicking, you can drag the same across several machines and pull, or insert, for each one. With something in your hand, pressing Z will drop one it. If the cursor is over a machine it will insert one of it into the machine. You can hold Z over a machine and insert one at a time (not very helpful for me since I cannot count the drops as fast as the game does) or your can hold Z and drag across several machines and insert one into each. Great for starting several drills, or furnaces, quickly, and then go back and add more. You can even "wave" the cursor back and forth and drop one into each machine with each wave. Great way to spread a little bit of coal across several smelters without opening and counting each piece of coal.

The part where your skills matters is the orientation. I cannot drag a straight line up or down. I can almost do one right to left and a half-decent one left to right. So, when I build a collection of early smelters I line them up in a row so I can do better at loading and unloading them with some speed. If it doesn't matter for your mouse skills, then either way works. If it does matter, knowing which to use can save time.

Finally, more about that video. First, it's in version 1.1, so most of it needs adjusting for the new tech tree. He also have settings, which I don't think he shows, which are no longer valid for no spoon, and others. And, he makes several references to specific counts of things needed for the next step. All those are based on using his exact blueprint book. He's nice enough to provide it online, but it's just playing his game for him, not playing your game. (Personal view, which you can ignore if you wish.) With a few personal touches, that set of prints is the same ones used by most of the runners in the 100% category. They worked together to build them. The key takeaway here is not to use his numbers, but to have that level or precision on the numbers you need to make what you design. If you only need 30 inserters, but make 36 inserters, you will have used 27 additional seconds of assembler time along with 66 seconds of mining time and 106 seconds of furnace time. That's over 3 minutes of processing time the factory (or mini-starter-factory) could be making something else you need. Fine if you are just playing the game, yet potentially breaking if you're racing the clock.

Edit: Turns out I'm just as guilt as Derek. I too failed to provide the decon planner print. All it is, is a decon planner set to whitelist (decon only) "Huge rock" which are the only rocks with coal in them. The importable string is
0eNpVjksPgjAQhP9Ks2dIhBh5XD178mgMqWWBxtKSdvER0v/uovHAbTM7880s0KJyNpCfFWlnm8lIa9FDvUBAIm37sN5oSdO76bQh9KxcFrByRKjBO3VPh7lHSEDbFl9Q7+I1AdIGm4AGf9zRtezOE+4LyutpFTl9kv4ulJNGrJwgOufFdhFE5hKObN4+0v/UBIy8oWHDeXBPcWQaaw/e+e3Iy2xfVHlRluWhyvIYP32yVZA=
Made in version 1.1.110, so it can be imported into any version of 2.0 you happen to have running.
Last edited by Chindraba; May 15 @ 4:51pm
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