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jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 12:51
Oil pumps/pressure
Bearing in mind that I'm a first-timer who seems to ask more basic questions than some others do here...!

I have my first oil derrick (whatever Fac calls it) bringing up oil. It's miles away (like, into 100s of tiles). I built a long pipeline. It's working, but I wouldn't mind a somewhat faster delivery speed to my local refinery.

I did not build any booster pumps anywhere along it; nor does it start with a storage tank. But what I did do, by chance, was build it with majority underground pipes. I actually did that just to make moving across it easier.

Now, I have tried to understand what the wiki is saying about pressure, pumps & underground pipes. It's talking about the need for pumps along the way to boost pressure. But it's also saying something unintelligible about underground pipes themselves causing a boost/acting like pumps, I think?

So, is there actually any pump pressure boosting I can still do somewhere, or am I already getting maximum pressure because of the large amount of undergrounds?

Specifically, I have 1 distant oil jack thing sending to 1 local oil refinery, which has 3 level #1 speed modules. It seems it wants 100 oil input to produce its outputs. I'd say the time it takes with the green progress line to process the 100 oil into whatever outward it has refilled with 50 input oil; so it then takes the same time again to receive the second 50 inward. In other words, the refinery is processing 50% of the time, and awaiting refill the other 50%. Is this a pressure issue where with more pressure I could cut the refill time by half so that the refinery can start next processing as soon as first one is finished?

Thanks!
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Cakeeater 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 1:25 
I am not completly sure but hold your mouse over your oil pipes and see how much is in them (higher is better). you probaly need another or more oil derricks and if that does not work put pumps in.
Killcreek2 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 4:01 
A single oil well is unlikely to produce enough per second to keep a refinery running 100%, especially once depleted. Speed modules in the well & beacons nearby can help, but it is (usually) much easier to link up multiple wells instead to increase the total output.

If you mouse over the first pipe segment connected to the well, note the amount in the pipe ~ you should see the number fluctuating up sharply about once per sec, OR holding steady at max.
- If it is mostly near zero, then the pipe is not backed up & the well is working flat out. This indicates a lack of production ~ build some more oil wells.
- If it is full at the well but nearly empty at the refinery AND the well animation is jerky or not continuous, that could indicate a pipe throughput bottleneck due to distance ~ add 1 or more "repeater pumps" spaced evenly along the pipeline to break it into shorter sections, thus increasing the max available throughput per sec.



Regarding long distance piping:
This post on the main forums has a detailed explanation of the fluid mechanics ingame ~ https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19851

For small-scale / early game oil processing, you do not need to worry much about natural pressure vs active pumping, as distances / throughput inside the refining area should be small.

The table at the bottom of that post looks scary, but remember that the flow is in per game tick not per second, so just divide your wanted flow /sec by 60 to get flow /tick.

Here are some pipe length vs throughput ratios you may find useful while learning this part of the game (note that UG pipes always count as 2, regardless of spacing between the ends):
- For 500 flow/sec, distance can be a bit over 450 between source & destination. long distance
- For 1000 flow/sec, distance of no more than approx 200 pipe segments. general factory use
- For 1200 flow/sec, distance cannot be further than 16 pipes. high throughput, usually power plants

edit - typo
最后由 Killcreek2 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 4:09
jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:07 
Just a summary so far: I built a second oil derrick and now my flow is so much better, so to speak :)

Then I brought water up to my refinery, so I could change it over to Advanced Oil Processing or whatever which produces a higher ratio of Petroleum output, which is what I need for Plastic Bars, which is what I need for red electric circuit chips, which is what I need for ... everything ...

So now my factory is woking faster, but I still don't get enough red cicuits..

Yeah, this is a good game :)
最后由 jonbrave 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:12
jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:14 
@Killcreek2
One thing you made no mention of is underground piping. And what a "pipe segment" is composed of. The wiki page goes on about underground piping counting as two pipes and that increases pressure, or some such:

Underground pipes only work in two opposite directions, linking to another underground pipe on one side, and to another entity on the other. If a pipe section becomes too long without using pumps, all fluid inside it will be "spread thin", resulting in very slow flow and preventing machines to use its contents effectively. [Tanks behave the same as pipes, except their volume is much greater, which can cause this inconvenience over a much smaller distance if multiple tanks are used.] Underground pipes can help alleviate this issue; although they can connect a distance of up to 10 tiles, their volume is always equivalent to two pipes.

Am I getting better pressure already because I have a lot of undergrounders in the pipeline, or not?
最后由 jonbrave 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:17
Killcreek2 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:34 
Undergroundies function exactly the same as regular pipes.
Neither type will affect "pressure" directly ~ that is derived by the fluid flow algorithm simulating fluid settling evenly throughout connected parts. (Producers are high altitude, consumers are low altitude ~ this simulates the natural "pressure" or flow. See the post I linked earlier for more info there.)

You are likely confusing the increased map tiles covered by using undergroundies vs same tile distance covered with regular pipes ~ as a pair of UG will stretch 11 tiles but a pair of regular only stretch 2 tiles, this means you can cover 5.5 times the tile distance for same level of fluid throughput /sec.
So, for a set tile distance, this means you can achieve a higher flow rate using UG than you could with regular pipes, due to using only 18.18% as many total pipe segments. (Pipe segments not tile distance are what matters for throughput /sec calculations.)


Hope that clears it up for you, do ask if you need further clarification ~ questions are good.
The Chaotic Coder 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 5:41 
引用自 jonbrave
Just a summary so far: I built a second oil derrick and now my flow is so much better, so to speak :)

Then I brought water up to my refinery, so I could change it over to Advanced Oil Processing or whatever which produces a higher ratio of Petroleum output, which is what I need for Plastic Bars, which is what I need for red electric circuit chips, which is what I need for ... everything ...

So now my factory is woking faster, but I still don't get enough red cicuits..

Yeah, this is a good game :)

Just a side-note, now that you have advanced oil processing one thing you should definitely do (if you haven't already) is make at least 2 chem plants to crack heavy oil into light oil and crack light oil into gas. If heavy or light oil has nowhere to go, it will stop the refinery from operating (and gas is almost always the thing you need the most of)
KatherineOfSky 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 7:08 
Keep in mind that you can also use trains to transport liquids to eliminate worries about pressure over long distances :-)
jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 9:56 
@jchardin64
Yes, that's what I meant I had done when I said "Then I brought water up to my refinery, so I could change it over to Advanced Oil Processing or whatever which produces a higher ratio of Petroleum output". Petroleum Gas. Amazing, I actually managed one thing on my own!

@KoS
Yes I know, and so far I have kept away from trains! I have more than enough yet to figure :)

What about this sentence:

Underground pipes can help alleviate this issue; although they can connect a distance of up to 10 tiles, their volume is always equivalent to two pipes.

I think @KillCreek2 tried to explain this to me, but all I got was "18%". What does the above mean? Please think Factorio for Dummies in your answer....
KatherineOfSky 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 10:06 
引用自 jonbrave
What about this sentence:

Underground pipes can help alleviate this issue; although they can connect a distance of up to 10 tiles, their volume is always equivalent to two pipes.

I think @KillCreek2 tried to explain this to me, but all I got was "18%". What does the above mean? Please think Factorio for Dummies in your answer....

Because pressure decreases over distance, it's highly useful to make that distance as short as possible. Underground pipes, though they can stretch 10 tiles, only count as 2 tiles. So effectively you are going 1/5th the distance in terms of fluid distance traveled. (I.e. your use of undergrounds was ideal for the situation).
jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 10:28 
Oooohhhh. Well why didn't they just say that then?
Thanks, I will conisder this...

OK, I've thought about it.
So it was fortuitous I built it mostly from undergrounders then. Thta's why I'm getting away without pumps probably.

BTW, it's a silly rule, isn't it? The pipes still stretch underground, so they should count normal against the pressure, can't be too difficult for Fac to do the math?
最后由 jonbrave 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 10:31
Killcreek2 2018 年 2 月 4 日 下午 8:51 
引用自 jonbrave
Oooohhhh. Well why didn't they just say that then?
I thought I did...

引用自 Killcreek2
~ as a pair of UG will stretch 11 tiles but a pair of regular only stretch 2 tiles, this means you can cover 5.5 times the tile distance for same level of fluid throughput /sec.
So, for a set tile distance, this means you can achieve a higher flow rate using UG than you could with regular pipes, due to using only 18.18% as many total pipe segments.

KoS said pretty much the same thing I had. (Just with the wrong numbers ~ it is 11 tiles total not 10, so not 1/5th (20%) but actually 1/5.5th (18.18%).)
KatherineOfSky 2018 年 2 月 4 日 下午 8:57 
引用自 Killcreek2
KoS said pretty much the same thing I had. (Just with the wrong numbers ~ it is 11 tiles total not 10, so not 1/5th (20%) but actually 1/5.5th (18.18%).)

I was using the numbers quoted. (Quoted, evidently, before you corrected your typo :P )
Killcreek2 2018 年 2 月 4 日 下午 9:02 
The typo was "deleted" instead of "depleted". I had put the correct numbers in the original. :)
linux ISO collector 2018 年 2 月 4 日 下午 9:26 
Piping over long distances is very forgiving. 171 pipe length using all underground pipes is pretty far away, and you get 1000+ fluid per second which is a LOT.

I'd personally recommend, before you pipe over a long distance to store the fluid on a single tank first, and then using the one pump to take it out of the tank and into your long distance pipes. That way you make sure your baseline "fluid pressure" is as high as it can be. This also has the nice added bonus that when you decide to set up trains, you can just have the train stop sit next to this oil tank.
jonbrave 2018 年 2 月 10 日 上午 3:01 
Does anyone know why the game makes it so that underground pipes effectively increase pressure? Using them is an "easy way out" of bothering to build pumps, which doesn't seem right/realistic.
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发帖日期: 2018 年 2 月 4 日 上午 12:51
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